Article: Malema EFF rally

[Garson007]

so what is wrong in appointing the best man or women for the job?

They aren't. All but one, as far as I can see, has ever sat in parliament and that one sat in the upper house. They'd potentially make a great team for government, but I'm not sure they'll fit into parliament. Where's the ideology?

How exactly is a newspaper editor part of a corporation or an entrepreneur?

I was going to say he has the best credentials for a politician, but maybe a too administrative position within the industry he was in.

Mills Soko is a director, but his main job is a Professor in economic and foreign policy...

But he won't get to work with foreign policy or fiscal matters.

quite frankly at this point in time I believe that Aganga''s executive is better qualified than any other political party's. They are even more qualified than the DA.

Better qualified to run a company. A country? Potentially, but I wouldn't bet on it - especially if there is a lot of corporate favouritism. In parliament? Not a chance.

Also, kudos agentrfr. Good thing is that the droop system implemented in South Africa makes the whole "cancel other vote" movement irrelevant and intellectually dishonest.

 

[ForceFate]

Website is for the elite. We prefer going to where the masses reside. Ohh like our page in facebook - youths our target also

But...But... what's the difference?

 

[Nicodeamus]

They aren't. All but one, as far as I can see, has ever sat in parliament and that one sat in the upper house. They'd potentially make a great team for government, but I'm not sure they'll fit into parliament. Where's the ideology?

Why does one have to be in parliament to be a good politician? Since when is this a qualification. We want to change parliament, not appoint people from its ranks. That is ridiculous to say the least.

Since when is being a member of parliament a better qualification than having a manager director at the world bank? Zuma was also just a member of parliament.....

As for the ideology, they believe in a representative democracy or direct democracy, call it what you like. Agang has called for a change in the electorate system whereby the branches will nominate people to go into parliament. This structure will be used for their policy formulation as well. During this election that have identified 5 pillars, which their campaign will be based on. Healthcare, education, Economy (with job creation in mind), Civil service and crime prevention. You can read their policy outline on their website, the details will be finalized during the workshops, held all over this country during the next two months, where the brances can nominate people to represent them during policy formation.

They are also going to stay away from ideology in its strictest sense. Ideology should have died with the Berlin wall, rather use proper principle and policy to govern a country. People are tired of a top down ideological approach.

I was going to say he has the best credentials for a politician, but maybe a too administrative position within the industry he was in.

Who? I pointed out 3 people. An Entrepreneur, an editor and a economics professor....

But he won't get to work with foreign policy or fiscal matters.

I don't even know what you mean for this...

Better qualified to run a company. A country? Potentially, but I wouldn't bet on it - especially if there is a lot of corporate favouritism. In parliament? Not a chance.

so you're basing your arguments against your own bias against corporations? The DA themselves are supportive of corporations. What exactly qualifies someone to be good in parliament apart from having a big mouth?

I think you need to read the DA's policies before you make such comments

Industrial Policy

The party advocates an active industrial policy that allow the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC) to co-ordinate industrial policy. Additionally it would also set up a sovereign venture capital fund to help support innovation in key industries. The DA also supports the creation of Industrial Development Zones and Export Processing Zones. The party suggests that by relaxing certain regulations in these zones, manufacturers and exporters would be able to grow faster and employ more people. This fits into the party's broader vision of growing the economy by cutting red tape and regulations it claims is holding back South Africa's economic growth.

That is also quite a sensible policy, wouldn''t you say?

 

[j4ck455]

Website is for the elite.

I know the answer to this one: dung is to bull, like intelligence is to bloody agents.

Ohh like our page in facebook - youths our target also

I prefer to dislike any page on Facebook infested with the EffOff and cANCer parties, unfortunately it can take a long time to find the dislike button which is hidden by default.

We prefer going to where the masses reside.

You are correct in saying that Facebook is the online residence for masses of people, however Facebook is not the beginning and end of the Internet.

 

[Garson007]

Why does one have to be in parliament to be a good politician? Since when is this a qualification. We want to change parliament, not appoint people from its ranks. That is ridiculous to say the least.

You need people who have done political and ideological groundwork in parliament. Most of those leaders have no great experience in it.

Since when is being a member of parliament a better qualification than having a manager director at the world bank?

Since always. I'm sure a surgeon also makes a great sculptor or logger.

As for the ideology, they believe in a representative democracy or direct democracy, call it what you like. Agang has called for a change in the electorate system whereby the branches will nominate people to go into parliament. This structure will be used for their policy formulation as well.

Likely unconstitutional, but I'd have to review the constitution to make sure. It's also retarded - but that's another issue. Proportional representation or no deal. The last thing we need is district based pork in our government.

During this election that have identified 5 pillars, which their campaign will be based on. Healthcare, education, Economy (with job creation in mind), Civil service and crime prevention.

What bill and policies are they looking to implement? It's great saying they'll improve A, B, C or D - but they have do to so through the assembly as they will not gain administrative powers. So what will they put forth on the floor?

They are also going to stay away from ideology in its strictest sense.

Good luck with that. The whole idea of proportional representation is built on ideological representation.

rather use proper principle and policy to govern a country.

On what are these principles and policies based, if not ideology? They won't get to govern.

People are tired of a top down ideological approach.

That's quite the generalisation. Especially since the world is moving towards more ideology based constitutions and so forth.

Who? I pointed out 3 people. An Entrepreneur, an editor and a economics professor....

I quoted you talking about the editor. An entrepreneur falls in with the CEOs, Directors and COOs.

I don't even know what you mean for this...

He won't get to govern.

so you're basing your arguments against your own bias against corporations? The DA themselves are supportive of corporations.

I don't support the DA. I have however voted for them once.

What exactly qualifies someone to be good in parliament apart from having a big mouth?

What qualifies anybody in any job? Experience.

 

[Nicodeamus]

You need people who have done political and ideological groundwork in parliament. Most of those leaders have no great experience in it.

not really. Parliament is different, you get elected into parliament for a reason. Someone should be voted into parliament, because they can represent you not because they have been a parliamentarian. Representation implies that they know the needs of the country and the people on the ground. If that had not been the case then everyone should vote for Koos van der Merwe, he is the longest serving member of paliament to my knowledge.

Since always. I'm sure a surgeon also makes a great sculptor or logger.

Being in parliament doesn't make you a good governer or cabinet minister anymore than being a plumber makes you a good doctor. You're surgen comparison is wrong and pathetic, given that a surgeon is required to have expertise as being a surgeon. A President is required to have experience in government or some form of administration.

Now lets look at what our previous presidents or prime ministers had..
Nelson Mandela - lawyer
Thabo Mbeki - BA Degree in Economics and masters in African studies
Zuma - grade 8, but he has been in parliament for a long time!
FW De Klerk - lawyer
PW Botha - uneducated but he was in parliament for long!
John Vorster - Lawyer
Dr HF Verwoerd - University Professor in psycology..
JG Strijdom - Advocate
DF Malan - Dominee and philosopher..

Now going by that anyone who is a lawyer should be president. Obviously this reasoning is absurd. South Africa currently needs someone that can understand the global markets and bring investment into this country, who better to do that than a managing director at the world bank?

Likely unconstitutional, but I'd have to review the constitution to make sure. It's also retarded - but that's another issue. Proportional representation or no deal. The last thing we need is district based pork in our government.

no it is not, it will require a bill to be passed in parliament though.

What bill and policies are they looking to implement? It's great saying they'll improve A, B, C or D - but they have do to so through the assembly as they will not gain administrative powers. So what will they put forth on the floor?

Well for public services for example they have suggested passing a bill that prohibits government family members from obtaining tenders. They also want parliamentarians to have a monthly meeting with their constituency. They also want to ban people found guilty of corruption from doing business with government or running for electoral office for at least 5 years. Read the policies on their website, http://www.agangsa.org.za/ However not all of them have been defined yet, they will be finilized through the workshop structure that I explained earlier.

Good luck with that. The whole idea of proportional representation is built on ideological representation.

I don't think you understand what I meant by that. They are not following an ideological say ''liberal'' or ''conservative'' approach that will serve as a political compass as to which type of bills are good and which are bad. Good policy should be identified and implemented based on your principles not because of some state religion.

On what are these principles and policies based, if not ideology? They won't get to govern.

Equality, human dignity and pretty much fundamental human rights to name a few.

That's quite the generalisation. Especially since the world is moving towards more ideology based constitutions and so forth.

really, after the berlin wall the world moved away from ideologies. Communism came down, nationalism came down. fascism is dead... a top down approach is dying, in the cases were it isn't dying it is showing great contradictions.

I quoted you talking about the editor. An entrepreneur falls in with the CEOs, Directors and COOs.

okay, I guess you have a different view of a corporation than I do. I don't know of many corporations who have an ''entrepreneurial post''. Hell I am an entrepreneur for starting one business, but I don't work for a large corporation.
I guess you're referring to companies like APPLE.

He won't get to govern.

even if not, surely his ideas will be more influential in the national debate?

I don't support the DA. I have however voted for them once.

so what would you want to see from a political party?

What qualifies anybody in any job? Experience.

Exactly, being president your primary function is to govern a country. Therefore I would put experience in management higher up as experience in parliament. The same can be said about ministers, depending on their portfolio.

 

[Garson007]

not really. Parliament is different, you get elected into parliament for a reason.

What reason? To represent the voters.

Someone should be voted into parliament, because they can represent you not because they have been a parliamentarian.

Quite right. However they should represent your ideology and not your community. Your community is already represented at municipal level. Your community has zero relevance in the national assembly. Absolutely zero. Your demographic however does, and that is represented through party ideology. Who represents your neighbour if his track of thought is not in line with the representative?

Representation implies that they know the needs of the country and the people on the ground.

They represent the ideology of the people on the ground.

Being in parliament doesn't make you a good governer or cabinet minister anymore than being a plumber makes you a good doctor.

Never said otherwise. What I did say was that the leadership of Agang will sit in parliament - not be ministers, mayors or premiers.

You're surgen comparison is wrong and pathetic, given that a surgeon is required to have expertise as being a surgeon.

Politicians have expertise in being politicians.

A President is required to have experience in government or some form of administration.

Required? No. Helpful, yes. I'm still of the mind that the head of parliament and the head of state should be two different people. I'd approve of that electoral reform. Regardless, the prime minister will always be a politician as he's elected internally.

Now lets look at what our previous presidents or prime ministers had..
Nelson Mandela - lawyer
Thabo Mbeki - BA Degree in Economics and masters in African studies
Zuma - grade 8, but he has been in parliament for a long time!
FW De Klerk - lawyer
PW Botha - uneducated but he was in parliament for long!
John Vorster - Lawyer
Dr HF Verwoerd - University Professor in psycology..
JG Strijdom - Advocate
DF Malan - Dominee and philosopher..

Lawyers make exceptionally good politicians.

Now going by that anyone who is a lawyer should be president. Obviously this reasoning is absurd.

No it doesn't. The reasoning is absurd.

South Africa currently needs someone that can understand the global markets and bring investment into this country, who better to do that than a managing director at the world bank?

They won't get an administrative position. Besides, they're not campaigning for one. They're campaigning for seats in parliaments.

no it is not, it will require a bill to be passed in parliament though.

Nope. Section 46.1.d clearly states that the general results must be proportionally representative. Now, this is possible with a mixed system as employed by Germany.

Well for public services for example they have suggested passing a bill that prohibits government family members from obtaining tenders.

That's a good suggestion and something I could support. I'm surprised if something like that wasn't already legislated.

They also want parliamentarians to have a monthly meeting with their constituency.

That's just ridiculous. It will cost money and only provide opportunity for lobbyists to force feed pork. Not to mention not being proportionally representative.

They also want to ban people found guilty of corruption from doing business with government or running for electoral office for at least 5 years.

Another good idea that I'm surprised isn't already implemented.

I don't think you understand what I meant by that. They are not following an ideological say ''liberal'' or ''conservative'' approach that will serve as a political compass as to which type of bills are good and which are bad. Good policy should be identified and implemented based on your principles not because of some state religion.

I'm still confused. Where do these principles originate out of if not ideology?

Equality, human dignity and pretty much fundamental human rights to name a few.

That doesn't say much and does nothing to dissuade my opinion that they're the corporate representation in parliament. Minimalism is naturally libertarian and libertarianism is good for companies.

really, after the berlin wall the world moved away from ideologies. Communism came down, nationalism came down. fascism is dead... a top down approach is dying, in the cases were it isn't dying it is showing great contradictions.

So most elections aren't divided between the basic conservatives, liberals and socialists?

okay, I guess you have a different view of a corporation than I do. I don't know of many corporations who have an ''entrepreneurial post''. Hell I am an entrepreneur for starting one business, but I don't work for a large corporation.

You're correct, I don't know how deep he's entrenched in corporate culture.

even if not, surely his ideas will be more influential in the national debate?

He could do a good job on the floor. I'll wait and see if he's willing to budge on policy.

so what would you want to see from a political party?

A good political track record that sides with my ideology.

Exactly, being president your primary function is to govern a country. Therefore I would put experience in management higher up as experience in parliament. The same can be said about ministers, depending on their portfolio.

I don't disagree.