Atos eating front tyres.

Sinbad said:
Camber doesn't push the car sideways.
Click to expand...

If both wheels are the same as each other, even if they're way out from the specs, then I agree with you.

If both wheels on an axle are at very different cambers, it will push the car.
 
Colin62 said:
If both wheels are the same as each other, even if they're way out from the specs, then I agree with you.

If both wheels on an axle are at very different cambers, it will push the car.
Click to expand...

How?
 
Sinbad said:
How?
Click to expand...

I started trying to explain my understanding of it, but decided that posting a link is probably going to be way quicker, and result in a lot less editing and correction.

http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/176


edit:- Here's another article http://www.anewtoronto.com/wheel alignment.html

and a quote from it
If the camber is out of adjustment, it will cause premature tire wear on one side of the tire's thread. When the camber is out of adjustment it can cause a pulling problem to the side with the more positive camber.
This usually happens when the vehicle has been involved in an accident which has caused structural damage or damage to the strut and / or spindle assembly.
Click to expand...
 
Colin62 said:
I started trying to explain my understanding of it, but decided that posting a link is probably going to be way quicker, and result in a lot less editing and correction.

http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/176


edit:- Here's another article http://www.anewtoronto.com/wheel alignment.html

and a quote from it
Click to expand...

Camber causes our vehicle to pull because of conicity. This means we form a cone if we consider the intersection of the centerline of the wheel and the surface of the road. If we roll a cone, it moves in a circle. The same is true with the cone we form with positive camber. Our vehicle attempts to roll is a circle around the intersection of the wheel centerline and the road.
Click to expand...

Sounds like rubbish to me. You can't compare a cambered wheel to a cone.
 
Sinbad said:
Sounds like rubbish to me. You can't compare a cambered wheel to a cone.
Click to expand...

Yeah, we can get all confrontational and start a flame war if we want, but I'm not really in the mood. I've offered my advice for the OP to follow if he chooses, and I've backed it up with two independent sources, and google will easily find more. If you choose to disagree, that's your right, however, perhaps you'd like to explain for the OP's benefit why camber can't push the car sideways.
 
Guy from speedy said exactly what you did Colin.
Says I must bitch at hyundai about buying a new car that is all "crom en skeef"

Anyway.
Next weeks hassles.
 
Colin62 said:
Yeah, we can get all confrontational and start a flame war if we want, but I'm not really in the mood. I've offered my advice for the OP to follow if he chooses, and I've backed it up with two independent sources, and google will easily find more. If you choose to disagree, that's your right, however, perhaps you'd like to explain for the OP's benefit why camber can't push the car sideways.
Click to expand...

Was calling the website rubbish, not you. Just because it's on the internet doesn't mean it's true.

Anyway, whatever... That tiny bit of camber on the back wheels is not going to wear the front tyres. If anything, it'll wear the outside of that back tyre.
Camber does not change the direction of rotation, only the axis of rotation. The wheel can still track straight. If camber caused the car to pull heavily to one side, how would NASCARs be controllable with their massive amounts of opposite camber? ie, inside wheel with big positive, outside wheel with big negative? By your assertion, they should either go sideways or round in tiny circles?
 
Sinbad said:
Was calling the website rubbish, not you. Just because it's on the internet doesn't mean it's true.
Click to expand...

Thanks, and I agree in principle :)


Sinbad said:
If camber caused the car to pull heavily to one side, how would NASCARs be controllable with their massive amounts of opposite camber? ie, inside wheel with big positive, outside wheel with big negative? By your assertion, they should either go sideways or round in tiny circles?
Click to expand...

Nascar racing is a bit of a special case - they go around in the same direction, on banked tracks, so the alignment setup they use is not transferable to real road users.

It's not the magnitude of the camber that is the problem, it's the difference between wheels that will push a car, although very high (but equal) values of camber will also cause uneven tyre wear. In general any racing car has much higher amounts of camber than road cars do, because they're more concerned with handling around corners than tyre wear. Road users need a balance of the two.

I'd love to be able to explain the conical effect of camber, but using words only and no hands, drawings and a few things lying about to try and illustrate it, it's just not going to work. I'll look for a better explanation of that and post the link if I find one.
 
Colin62 said:
Thanks, and I agree in principle :)




Nascar racing is a bit of a special case - they go around in the same direction, on banked tracks, so the alignment setup they use is not transferable to real road users.

It's not the magnitude of the camber that is the problem, it's the difference between wheels that will push a car, although very high (but equal) values of camber will also cause uneven tyre wear. In general any racing car has much higher amounts of camber than road cars do, because they're more concerned with handling around corners than tyre wear. Road users need a balance of the two.

I'd love to be able to explain the conical effect of camber, but using words only and no hands, drawings and a few things lying about to try and illustrate it, it's just not going to work. I'll look for a better explanation of that and post the link if I find one.
Click to expand...

I'd understand the conical thing if in fact the wheel was cone shaped, which it isn't. The reason a cone rolls around in a circle is because the circumference at the point is so much lower than the circumference at the base - but they both have to rotate at the same angular velocity, so the point covers much less ground than the base for each rotation.
The tyre has the same circumference over its entire width.
 
This diagram is how I've always understood it to work. Of course the tyre is flexible, not solid, which I think (no scientific basis for saying that, just my gut feel) decreases the effect.

The diagram is very exaggerated, - the camber is usually less than a degree, often less than half a degree.

tech_pic_sus_camber.jpg
 
Ja I dislike the look of that diagram. Why is the top of the tyre ALSO distorted? Unless that is supposed to represent a tyre that is heavily worn on the outside of the tread? That tyre is indeed cone shaped but that doesn't happen as soon as you have a bit of positive camber.
 
That's crazy. Look how much your caster increased, and that's generally not adjustable. I'd say their machine is inaccurate.
 
Sinbad said:
That's crazy. Look how much your caster increased, and that's generally not adjustable. I'd say their machine is inaccurate.
Click to expand...

Which machine?

Think I should go for a 3'rd report?
 
Lol, from bad to worse. If we assume the machines are accurate then it means you have suspension components that are moving/adjusting while driving around which means something is loose/broken.

Take your car to a suspension specialist and stop wasting your time with these places.
 
Bud did you just spent +- 300 per alignment check?

A 3rd report will also show different settings. If you put the same car on the same machine later, you will get different spec.

It went from toe in to toe out and that is a massive difference.

The setting that shows whether a vehicle is 'crabbing' is the thrust angle. You have that. Camber angles are too small to cause major effect. To change rear camber, reputable places will either install camber bolts or use shims stacks, they will NOT bend it.

You also have massive setback. This indicates damage.

OEM specs are a range. If you have issues, you need to dial in the settings within the range. Most alignment guys are just wrench jockeys with no experience on suspension repair.


1. Take it to the suspension place (posted in the above post)

Let use know if you sort it out and what was the issue.
 
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I'll take it to a specialist but want it to be at Hyundai's expense. No neither place charged me a cent. First I think was on Hyundai's expense as they took it there (this also makes me wonder if it was modified to look better for the dealer) and 2nd place told me they could do nothing to improve it so it's free.
 
Anyway, I think come Monday I'll get a 3rd opinion and then shove all 3 reports down someone's throat.
 
I know how you feel. These things can be very frustrating. Good luck bud

Lets us know how it goes.
 
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