Avis supports e-toll, sees positive impact

Paul Hjul said:
not without national government support and approval
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As the GP Provincial Gov and the National Gov are from the same party, maybe agreement could be reached.
It's one less massive road Sanral would have look after
 
JStrike said:
As the GP Provincial Gov and the National Gov are from the same party, maybe agreement could be reached.
It's one less massive road Sanral would have look after
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because provincial roads don't have legislation allowing for tolling concessions
because SANRAL wants control of more roads rather than less
 
Paul Hjul said:
because provincial roads don't have legislation allowing for tolling concessions
because SANRAL wants control of more roads rather than less
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SANRAL want control of more roads rather than less? Seems crazy
 
JStrike said:
SANRAL want control of more roads rather than less? Seems crazy
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IT IS but that is besides the point
you see if there were half a dozen or so public utility road companies with the ability to own roads and to toll under defined conditions such as not to undermine prexisting right of way rights held by individuals and the public at large operating in Gauteng then the entire e-tolling saga would be a non-event. There would be open roads tolled running as express ways (one of the two roads from Krugersdorp to Pretoria for example) competing with each other bringing about both efficiency and market related prices there would be public roads without tolling funded by the fuel levy or somebodies largess. The issue is that SANRAL has a monopoly which they issue concessions from and they have access to the public kitty.
 
JStrike said:
Well, you would think it would alleviate their budget
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why there reason for existence is as a monopoly - so power is really important and they can then wield this power to service debts. Considering that their shareholder has no commercial interest the budget really doesn't matter to them.
 
JStrike said:
Ok, you have no called me a troll quite a few times now in this thread. So once again, why I am I a troll? Is it because I am not against etolls?
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It is the convention here to call anybody out of sync with popular consensus a troll, whether they have a point or not

I don't think most of us in Gauteng would oppose a GP fuel levy, as long as that money is used for the purpose it was collected for. People are not generally opposed to the requirement of additional revenues being collected, but the nature and opaqueness with which it is being done.
 
imranpanji said:
It is the convention here to call anybody out of sync with popular consensus a troll, whether they have a point or not

I don't think most of us in Gauteng would oppose a GP fuel levy, as long as that money is used for the purpose it was collected for. People are not generally opposed to the requirement of additional revenues being collected, but the nature and opaqueness with which it is being done.
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That is a view I agree with, but most of the noise about etolling is not like that. Which is unfortunate
 
troll or not, but anyone that is for e-tolling(e-tag) aint right in their head
 
Tns said:
troll or not, but anyone that is for e-tolling(e-tag) aint right in their head
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I am for etolls. I think they work fantastically in other places, and I think it would work well here.
The implementation in GP might be bad, but the concept is good (In my opinion). Provincial Fuel Levies would be alright too, but only if done by the Provincial Gov not National Gov.
 
Jola said:
That is where you are wrong. It is like that !
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Nope. Look at the post right below yours. The majority of people are rabidly against etolls in general, not the specific implementation that is in GP
 
JStrike said:
I am for etolls. I think they work fantastically in other places, and I think it would work well here.
The implementation in GP might be bad, but the concept is good (In my opinion). Provincial Fuel Levies would be alright too, but only if done by the Provincial Gov not National Gov.
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It creates the same economic problems. The spreading of the cost across the country makes sense - all provinces derive value from the GDP of Gauteng. Gauteng accounts for the majority of the country's GDP, the taxes thereof are put into the fiscus, which CPT receives a portion of. You guys are not self-sustaining from an economic perspective.

But this is besides the point. The implementation here is so atrociously exorbitant that the method used for collection/recovery is not sufficient. When dealing with the costs associated (R30bn), provincial implementation is viable. I've shown this time and time again. We are therefore stuck with a national issue.

You know that I agree with you on e-tolls and MBUF. But in this case, the government have put us in a precarious situation that requires national involvement in recovery. So get pissed off with them. National recovery is necessary only because the government stuffed up, once again. Had this been properly implemented and funded, others would probably find themselves aligned with you on this. But within this specific context - note, not Italy, not a perfect world scenario that you're using - we have little choice but to adopt national recovery mechanisms. It sucks, but imo it is the reality of the specific context we find ourselves in.

And guys, please stop calling JStrike a troll for simply differing with your opinion. He's not, and he's right in that e-tolls are the solution to future long-term road infrastructure development. You're all arguing over each other. JStrike is using a perfect world scenario. You're all contextualising it into our situation...
 
JStrike said:
Nope. Look at the post right below yours. The majority of people are rabidly against etolls in general, not the specific implementation that is in GP
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You are wrong ! People are against the costly implementation, and the associated corruption.
 
DJ... said:
It creates the same economic problems. The spreading of the cost across the country makes sense - all provinces derive value from the GDP of Gauteng. Gauteng accounts for the majority of the country's GDP, the taxes thereof are put into the fiscus, which CPT receives a portion of. You guys are not self-sustaining from an economic perspective.

But this is besides the point. The implementation here is so atrociously exorbitant that the method used for collection/recovery is not sufficient. When dealing with the costs associated (R30bn), provincial implementation is viable. I've shown this time and time again. We are therefore stuck with a national issue.

You know that I agree with you on e-tolls and MBUF. But in this case, the government have put us in a precarious situation that requires national involvement in recovery. So get pissed off with them. National recovery is necessary only because the government stuffed up, once again. Had this been properly implemented and funded, others would probably find themselves aligned with you on this. But within this specific context - note, not Italy, not a perfect world scenario that you're using - we have little choice but to adopt national recovery mechanisms. It sucks, but imo it is the reality of the specific context we find ourselves in.

And guys, please stop calling JStrike a troll for simply differing with your opinion. He's not, and he's right in that e-tolls are the solution to future long-term road infrastructure development. You're all arguing over each other. JStrike is using a perfect world scenario. You're all contextualising it into our situation...
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We are a Nett Contributor to the National Treasury. We don't get any of GP's money. The rest of the country however do :)
But that is bedsides the point.

I do agree that the scale of the disaster either requires the current etolling system to go ahead or National Gov to step in. However, I think it would be better for National Gov to provide a once off bailout of the system, rather than the fuel levy, which the rest of SA would be stuck paying in perpetuity.
But going forward we need etolls. Or a constitutional amendment allowing for Provincial Government to raise Provincial fuel levy's
 
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