Axpert invertors

To anyone thinking of doing this, if you can afford it, CBI does make some really good quality stuff.

http://www.cbionline.co.za/

savage said:
That's for an E/L with overload protection, i.e. a 35mA / 40A E/L. E/L will trip if more than 35mA is leaked, OR if more than 40A flows through the breaker (similar to a circuit breaker).

As soon as you add overload protection to a E/L, they do become expensive. It's not only CBI.
Click to expand...

30mA not 35. Seems small but read up about it. There is an entire study done at UC Berkeley back in the day about 30mA being the limit to prevent cardiac arrest. After that South Africa pretty much invented the modern RCD as we use them today. Really impressive stuff. It is one of the reasons our electrical safety is far beyond that of the US and better than Europe IMO.

After reading that I put my entire place on an EL/RCD, makes the circuit pretty close to inherently safe with regards to fire and shock.

That said:

Mine is just a RCD: http://www.cbionline.co.za/collecti...unt-earth-leakage-without-overload-protection

The kind with overload protection is a lot more expensive: http://www.cbionline.co.za/collecti...-mount-earth-leakage-with-overload-protection

I couldn't buy the combined version because my main breaker is 35 amps and they don't sell them in 35amp. Would make my install way cleaner if I could tho. (3 Phase with multiple breakers is messy)
 
Last edited:
DollyAAAA said:
Good ol' paint-in-a-can. I'm impressed with the result.
Click to expand...

Me too, need to do this with my DB panel :)

Was thinking of just using a permanent marker at first to draw a line around the inverter section :p

Last question: Where did you get the labels for the DB board?
I have a booklet with some, but they definitely don't have the types you have.
 
Gnome said:
Me too, need to do this with my DB panel :)

Was thinking of just using a permanent marker at first to draw a line around the inverter section :p

Last question: Where did you get the labels for the DB board?
I have a booklet with some, but they definitely don't have the types you have.
Click to expand...

Was wondering the same thing, do you have a label printer or something? Or are those just laminated printouts from computer? :P
 
Gnome said:
Last question: Where did you get the labels for the DB board?
I have a booklet with some, but they definitely don't have the types you have.
Click to expand...

It's from a Brother PT-H105 labelling machine:

81yOekCyD-L._SL1500_.jpg

It makes heat/moisture resistant labels, unlike the thermal types.
 
DollyAAAA said:
20A SP CBI breaker R85
20A SP M.E.S. breaker R25, Chint even cheaper.
Click to expand...

Seems the price difference is due to the technology used. CBI uses hydraulic magnetic while the others use thermal.

For domestic use, I don't see many situations in which thermal will be an issue. It comes down to ambient temperature. Hydraulic magnetic doesn't seem to be affected by temperature whereas thermal relies on temperature to trip so it obviously has an affect.

Thermal may also need a cool down period after tripping. Lastly power used by thermal seems to be higher.

Doesn't seem that we are speaking about reliability or safety issues.

DollyAAAA said:
It's from a Brother PT-H105 labelling machine
Click to expand...

Very nice :)

Wish I had something like that on hand
 
Last edited:
Managed to sort out the problem with my inverter. It was a faulty unit. The installer is asking me to upgrade to a 5 kw Axpert from the current 3 kw. I can run microwave and refrigerator on the current 3 KW with some lights and I am happy so far. I may need to add a second battery bank if the back up is insufficient. In that case will the 5 Kw be more efficient? Are there any other major advantages for the 5 kw compared to 3kw system. I am not planning to add panels at this point in time
 
savage said:
No - those are LED lamps - you buy them like that. Many options available in terms of DIN rail mounts.
Click to expand...

I have been thinking about the indicator light on a mini rail. One option is to make your own and I can do that. I just do not know how well it will be received by the guy doing the COC. Then I saw that the ACDC surge protectors have an indicator to show it is still functional. Can one not use one of them? Wired into your alternate supply section. Maybe between live and neutral, although its current draw is about 1mA, so it would not even trigger an E/L if you use that for your alternate supply main switch and wired it between live and earth. So what do you guys think?

spd.jpg
spd-on.jpg
 
JohnHay said:
I have been thinking about the indicator light on a mini rail. One option is to make your own and I can do that. I just do not know how well it will be received by the guy doing the COC. Then I saw that the ACDC surge protectors have an indicator to show it is still functional. Can one not use one of them? Wired into your alternate supply section. Maybe between live and neutral, although its current draw is about 1mA, so it would not even trigger an E/L if you use that for your alternate supply main switch and wired it between live and earth. So what do you guys think?
Click to expand...

In one word: No.

The light means the surge protector still works. So if the light is off, is it because the surge protector is dead or because the power is off?
 
Gnome said:
In one word: No.

The light means the surge protector still works. So if the light is off, is it because the surge protector is dead or because the power is off?
Click to expand...

But does indicator lights come with a guarantee to never blow? Especially the commercially non existent mini rail ones. :) If this is on the load side of my inverter, the chances of either blowing is pretty slim.

But maybe I am just a little lazy. :)
 
Gnome said:
In one word: No.

The light means the surge protector still works. So if the light is off, is it because the surge protector is dead or because the power is off?
Click to expand...

Don't like the mixed uses as there is an increased chance of light being off with power on, however.

Isn't the idea behind the indicator lamp that:
Visible light means "definitely on"
No visible light means "all bets are off, test"

I mean anyone who relies on the light being off to mean off is going to kill themselves eventually surge protector or not, lights malfunction as well, and this is one possible argument the indicator idea is overrated, if lazy people are going to start thinking the light off means no power it actually makes things more dangerous. Always test before touching thats the reality.
 
Last edited:
mmacleod said:
Don't like the mixed uses as there is an increased chance of light being off with power on, however.

Isn't the idea behind the indicator lamp that:
Visible light means "definitely on"
No visible light means "all bets are off, test"

I mean anyone who relies on the light being off to mean off is going to kill themselves eventually surge protector or not, lights malfunction as well, and this is one possible argument the indicator idea is overrated, if lazy people are going to start thinking the light off means no power it actually makes things more dangerous. Always test before touching thats the reality.
Click to expand...

Yup, good point. Something I had drummed into my by my dad - even if you've turned it off, check with a multimeter.
 
mmacleod said:
Don't like the mixed uses as there is an increased chance of light being off with power on, however.

Isn't the idea behind the indicator lamp that:
Visible light means "definitely on"
No visible light means "all bets are off, test"

I mean anyone who relies on the light being off to mean off is going to kill themselves eventually surge protector or not, lights malfunction as well, and this is one possible argument the indicator idea is overrated, if lazy people are going to start thinking the light off means no power it actually makes things more dangerous. Always test before touching thats the reality.
Click to expand...

Anyone who sticks their fingers inside a DB without TESTING for power first, is an idiot, IMHO.

My idea with the lights is so that I can see what's going on at a glance, not for safety.

Both on = all ok
Top on, bottom off = fault with inverter/cb tripped
Top off, bottom on = Eskom off, inverter working
All off = cooking with gas...
 
DollyAAAA said:
Anyone who sticks their fingers inside a DB without TESTING for power first, is an idiot, IMHO.

My idea with the lights is so that I can see what's going on at a glance, not for safety.

Both on = all ok
Top on, bottom off = fault with inverter/cb tripped
Top off, bottom on = Eskom off, inverter working
All off = cooking with gas...
Click to expand...

Yep, makes sense.
 
For some reason my phone camera is failing me.

This is what I have currently:
DB: http://i.imgur.com/ez2gQ2G.jpg
Inveter internal: http://i.imgur.com/1v3g6PI.jpg
Where I put my inverter: http://i.imgur.com/9DCa2EW.jpg
Inside of inverter cupboard: http://i.imgur.com/ysbjD8b.jpg

DB needs a bit more work and generally my wires around the inverter needs work also.

My Inverter doesn't have a switch over, so I use a change-over relay (3PDT 15amp).
Power from Eskom goes through a voltage regulating transformer first (APC Line-R). The output is on the transformer secondary so it gives pretty good isolation (You can read more about Galvanic isolation if you care)
Each battery has its own charger that is in the battery box.
Each battery box has a momentary switch to show the voltage.
Using 50mm cable between the batteries and inverter, running 24v DC.

I know this isn't my own thread but thought I would add here since there is a nice thing going here :p
 
Last edited:
Gnome said:
Seems the price difference is due to the technology used. CBI uses hydraulic magnetic while the others use thermal.

For domestic use, I don't see many situations in which thermal will be an issue. It comes down to ambient temperature. Hydraulic magnetic doesn't seem to be affected by temperature whereas thermal relies on temperature to trip so it obviously has an affect.

Thermal may also need a cool down period after tripping. Lastly power used by thermal seems to be higher.

Doesn't seem that we are speaking about reliability or safety issues.
Click to expand...

I just got off the phone with the guys at M.E.S. and according to the technical person I spoke to, their breakers are "hydraulic and thermal". I don't think I will place too much weight on what he said. As far as I know, the two prevalent technologies are hydraulic-magnetic and thermal-magnetic. The hydraulic/thermal part will cause the trip when overloading for a specific time, while the magnetic part will cause instantaneous trip on dead short or extreme overload. CBI has a nice explanation on it here: http://www.cbi-lowvoltage.co.za/content/hydraulic-magnetic-principles and here: http://www.cbi-lowvoltage.co.za/content/thermal-magnetic-principles

I see more and more cheaper DIN rail installations in new houses. My house (relatively new) still has the mini rail CBI breakers. Not that the DIN rail stuff is bad, probably just more economical.
 
DollyAAAA said:
I just got off the phone with the guys at M.E.S. and according to the technical person I spoke to, their breakers are "hydraulic and thermal".
Click to expand...
Works like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq55tbLtnlg

The thermal part is a bi-metal plate. The hydraulic part is a solenoid that is only activated by a very large current draw.
Bi-metal plate is for over-current with a small margin (heats up, bends, then trips), the solenoid is for short circuit type situations (solenoid is pulled forward)

Not sure how the CBI works then, I have an extra old one and considered opening it, looks like a mission tho, might do it later when I have time.
 
can any one recommend an a company in Durban that supplies & installs the Axpert inverter
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X