mmacleod
Well-Known Member
What/Where is the best current pricing on the Axpert 4k or 5k?
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Axpert invertors
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mochips
Active Member
I got pricing from an IT company who has an account at Rectron and I was quoted R11;800.00 ex-vat; I was also told that Rectron does not have stock and your order will be waitlisted; and the backorder list is huge.
mmacleod
Well-Known Member
Thanks mochips - doesn't sound very promising.
Outch 40% markup if I look at the OPs price he paid
Find another rectron conected it company
The_Traveller
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Also look here ...
http://www.prostar.co.za/products.html
I remember attending the Solar Show at Sandton and saw this company MUST Power demo'ing .
http://www.prostar.co.za/products.html
I remember attending the Solar Show at Sandton and saw this company MUST Power demo'ing .
Just BTW...
Got my first eskom bill since my setup went live... I came down from an average bill of R3500, to my bill now of R760
Granted, I have PV installed (3kWp), and changed basically every single light on my property to LED.
I'm over the moon, to say the least!!!
EDIT: Lowest bill I have ever received since I've bought this house some 5 years ago...
Do you have a link to details of your setup?
savage
Expert Member
Awaiting some feedback regarding the EL and double pole breakers from those masters.
1) Nothing wrong with double pole breakers, and double pole breakers are still IMHO preferred,
2) The Inverter's incoming supply, MUST NOT sit behind an Earth Leakage (i.e. supply it with "clean" power),
3) The Inverter's outgoing supply, connect the Earth and Neutral together to earth the neutral and not have a floating line (i.e. earth your dedicated / emergency neutral bus bar),
4) Earth Leakage on the Inverter's output, will now work and function correctly.
Under no circumstances connect earth and neutral together BEHIND an Earth Leakage. Always do so BEFORE the Earth Leakage unit.
Provided that your supply to the inverter does NOT go through an Earth Leakage, there is nothing wrong, or unsafe with connecting the Neutral and Earth together on the output of the Inverter. It is actually ALREADY done in your electrical installation, either in, or before your DB board. It's simply done a second time behind the Inverter in order to ensure that the connection remains in tact should the Inverter switch to battery mode.
The above electrically makes perfect sense, it has been confirmed by a master electrician, and my installation has also now been altered to have those changes. Earth Leakage, and everything else works 100% in battery mode.
If your Inverter's supply IS behind an Earth Leakage, you will immediately, and constantly have the Earth Leakage tripping.
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Hi Chris,
Thanks for the feedback. I agree that way should be safe for humans. My one worry is if my Infinisolar will be happy with it and not let its smoke out. Hopefully the designers did not depend on it that it will never be done. I see in the manual there is a warning "No electrical ground" and some errors "Leakage current CT failed" and "Leakage current exceeds the allowable range", that seems to hint that they try to check / monitor something about it.
John
Thanks for the feedback. I agree that way should be safe for humans. My one worry is if my Infinisolar will be happy with it and not let its smoke out. Hopefully the designers did not depend on it that it will never be done. I see in the manual there is a warning "No electrical ground" and some errors "Leakage current CT failed" and "Leakage current exceeds the allowable range", that seems to hint that they try to check / monitor something about it.
John
savage
Expert Member
Again - there is nothing wrong with it, and it SHOULD be done. If you measure the voltage s between Neutral and Earth, you should ALWAYS have 0V. If not, you have stray voltages, which is again, very dangerous.
Leakage Current CT Failed - a CT is a Current Transformer, this refers to an actual COMPONENT in the Inverter
No Electrical Ground - again, is a different condition. This refers to NO grounding at all.
NO electrical device will blow up because neutral and earth is connected. Frankly, in the VERY old days, people actually used the Neutral wire for an Earth. This has subsequently been declared illegal for obvious reasons.
You can read up on your own about Stray Voltages at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stray_voltage The moral of the story is that Neutral is there to carry return voltages from devices. There SHOULD never be return voltages, as all energy used by the device, should be used up. The only thing you CAN do when you do have return voltages, is to discard it, by safely returning it to ground.
Leakage Current CT Failed - a CT is a Current Transformer, this refers to an actual COMPONENT in the Inverter
No Electrical Ground - again, is a different condition. This refers to NO grounding at all.
NO electrical device will blow up because neutral and earth is connected. Frankly, in the VERY old days, people actually used the Neutral wire for an Earth. This has subsequently been declared illegal for obvious reasons.
You can read up on your own about Stray Voltages at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stray_voltage The moral of the story is that Neutral is there to carry return voltages from devices. There SHOULD never be return voltages, as all energy used by the device, should be used up. The only thing you CAN do when you do have return voltages, is to discard it, by safely returning it to ground.
savage
Expert Member
http://ecmweb.com/power-quality/clearing-neutral-ground-voltage-confusion
Another good article explaining this. Just BTW, but this is -precisely- what an Earth Leakage does. It measures the CURRENT between Neutral and Earth, and if that CURRENT exceeds 30mA (or whatever rated E/L you have), then then shuts the breaker down for YOUR protection.
A G-to-N voltage of > 25V, can potentially cause severe negative effects. I've personally seen installations with a G-to-N as high as 120V
Again, I've said it before, and I'll say it again. It is IMPERATIVE that things get grounded, CORRECTLY. In any electrical installation, your ground wires are absolutely the most important.
Just for reference sake, but ANY HOUSE, will have the Ground and Neutral connected to each other in a FAT busbar, installed in the main junction box where the Council / Eskom supply is terminated at the house (normally the same location as the Earth Pin), and both Neutral as well as Earth, is connected to the Earth Pin directly in order to ensure that stray voltages on Neutral is safely, discarded.
Another good article explaining this. Just BTW, but this is -precisely- what an Earth Leakage does. It measures the CURRENT between Neutral and Earth, and if that CURRENT exceeds 30mA (or whatever rated E/L you have), then then shuts the breaker down for YOUR protection.
A G-to-N voltage of > 25V, can potentially cause severe negative effects. I've personally seen installations with a G-to-N as high as 120V
Again, I've said it before, and I'll say it again. It is IMPERATIVE that things get grounded, CORRECTLY. In any electrical installation, your ground wires are absolutely the most important.
Just for reference sake, but ANY HOUSE, will have the Ground and Neutral connected to each other in a FAT busbar, installed in the main junction box where the Council / Eskom supply is terminated at the house (normally the same location as the Earth Pin), and both Neutral as well as Earth, is connected to the Earth Pin directly in order to ensure that stray voltages on Neutral is safely, discarded.
I agree that proper grounding and the ground wires are very important. And I agree it should be done correctly. Which is also why I am a bit slow on doing and first thinking and talking things through. 
If you ground/earth your neutral behind the inverter, with the earth leakage device after that, the earth leakage device will work correctly. That I understand and am happy with.
But it also creates a second point where neutral is connected to earth. And it being nice thick copper connections with low resistance, will make an easy path for at least some of the electricity to flow. So it feels like a ground loop. (Ok, it is not exactly the same neutral, but not knowing what is happening inside the inverter, I am hesitant to just assume.)
I have not found that place yet. My meter box is built into the outside house wall and there is a ground point in the box, but it is not possible to see if the neutral is connected to it or even if there is a pin in the ground. There is a piece of wood behind the meter and the live and neutral go through it to the back.
John
If you ground/earth your neutral behind the inverter, with the earth leakage device after that, the earth leakage device will work correctly. That I understand and am happy with.
But it also creates a second point where neutral is connected to earth. And it being nice thick copper connections with low resistance, will make an easy path for at least some of the electricity to flow. So it feels like a ground loop. (Ok, it is not exactly the same neutral, but not knowing what is happening inside the inverter, I am hesitant to just assume.)
I have not found that place yet. My meter box is built into the outside house wall and there is a ground point in the box, but it is not possible to see if the neutral is connected to it or even if there is a pin in the ground. There is a piece of wood behind the meter and the live and neutral go through it to the back.
John
savage
Expert Member
Yes - that's precisely the idea, to make an easy path for the return voltage to flow back to earth. And no, you won't create a grounding loop, if your Inverter is on clean power, where Neutral + Ground is -already- connected.
I can almost guarantee you, somewhere on your property, as well as the Meter Box - your Neutrals and Grounds will be connected. Just like they use the amoured cabling amour for a earth, AND, a bare copper conductor. You DO NOT mess around with Earths. I've taken the below a while ago whilst installing a new DB in my house (rewired some 90% of my property), and clearly shows my main supply cable coming into my property, with a tie of to two separate DBs (was taken whilst I was installing a new DB)...
If you want a cleaner picture, I'll take one tomorrow - too damn cold right now.
It should be easy to test if axpert or any other inverter is correctly bonded internaly to neutral
Conect an earth leakage unit after inverter
Use a very small bulb between live and earth after EL
If EL trips there is already an internal bond between earth and neutral.
My inverter (cheap Chinese pure sine) don't even have the earth conected inside
Will have to make a plan and bond neutral and earth going to db when the time comes to wire it into house.
Conect an earth leakage unit after inverter
Use a very small bulb between live and earth after EL
If EL trips there is already an internal bond between earth and neutral.
My inverter (cheap Chinese pure sine) don't even have the earth conected inside
Will have to make a plan and bond neutral and earth going to db when the time comes to wire it into house.
greg_SA
Expert Member
Haven't has a change to read all the details of your post yet... but most houses these days actually use a RCD/RCCB, which measures the difference between live and neutral currents (not earth).
DollyAAAA
Well-Known Member
I've also installed the Axpert KS-2KVA with 2 x 102Ah Deltec deep cycle batteries in series. Does its thing quite admirably.
This thread got me thinking, last night I measured the AC voltage between Earth & Live and Earth & Neutral, while operating in battery mode (isolated inverter input with DP isolator). Got ~85V between Earth & Neutral and ~140 between Earth & Live on the output. Measured with a DMM.
Does this imply that the neutral is floating, i.e. not bonded internally? Do I need better test equipment? Do I need to/can you bond the neutral and earth on this unit?
This thread got me thinking, last night I measured the AC voltage between Earth & Live and Earth & Neutral, while operating in battery mode (isolated inverter input with DP isolator). Got ~85V between Earth & Neutral and ~140 between Earth & Live on the output. Measured with a DMM.
Does this imply that the neutral is floating, i.e. not bonded internally? Do I need better test equipment? Do I need to/can you bond the neutral and earth on this unit?
~85+~140 => ~225? Close to 220V - coincidence?
quinn_the_eskimo
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I have an Axpert MKS 5KVA 48V. I have placed an order for 4 x 260Ah OmniPower batteries with Sinetech, expect delivery early in July. I still need a suitable rack or enclosure of some sort.
Can anyone here please recommend a competent installer in the Midrand/Johannesburg area? I will be eternally grateful as I have had this unit since Feb. Also, has anyone used the batteries I've ordered and can anyone tell me where I can have a rack or enclosure made?
Thank you.
Can anyone here please recommend a competent installer in the Midrand/Johannesburg area? I will be eternally grateful as I have had this unit since Feb. Also, has anyone used the batteries I've ordered and can anyone tell me where I can have a rack or enclosure made?
Thank you.