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Question of the Day: If you were buying a TV today, which brand would you choose?
Axpert invertors
- Thread starter Draganchor
- Start date
Getafixx
Active Member
Sweet! Just what I was looking for. I'll just make sure to get LED pilot lights - hopefully they don't fade.
greg_SA
Expert Member
I had something strange happen with my Axpert Inverter last night. We had load shedding, and everything worked fine. Then afterwards, the battery charged for a while.
Then another 2h later, I switched my TV off (which is fed my the inverter, which was in bypass mode) then inverter started beeping, saying error "07" overload. But the load was less then 30%. I killed all the loads in the DB, but is still kept beeping. Tried switching it on and off at the switch - no luck. Cut power to the inverter, then it changed to battery mode, but still kept beeping with the overload error.
Eventually, I had to remove the battery cable to get it to power down completely! This solved the issue. But it seems like the inverter got into a confused state. I haven;t checked if there is a reset button to reset the inverter completely?
Then another 2h later, I switched my TV off (which is fed my the inverter, which was in bypass mode) then inverter started beeping, saying error "07" overload. But the load was less then 30%. I killed all the loads in the DB, but is still kept beeping. Tried switching it on and off at the switch - no luck. Cut power to the inverter, then it changed to battery mode, but still kept beeping with the overload error.
Eventually, I had to remove the battery cable to get it to power down completely! This solved the issue. But it seems like the inverter got into a confused state. I haven;t checked if there is a reset button to reset the inverter completely?
Chris Hobson
Member
My Axpert/Mecer also behaves erratically if I put a heavy load on it says battery low even though battery is at 52V. Late afternoon when the battery is in float it says it is 60% charged. If I connect to grid within 2 minutes it says 100% charged.
DollyAAAA
Well-Known Member
The_Traveller
Expert Member
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You guys do know that these Axpert inverters are Chinese Chinese ? meaning the low quality Chinese inverters.
Is there anyone that has an Axpert for 2 years+ without having problems ?
Is there anyone that has an Axpert for 2 years+ without having problems ?
Chris Hobson
Member
I have the 5kVA. I think that the internal shunt is responsible for this. It cannot really determine SOC and therefore comes up with guesswork in terms of SOC and I think that with a large draw the system under-reads the voltage and acts accordingly. Due to get a external battery monitor next week and then I will be able to truly see what is going on. I like my Axpert but I do not rely on any of the readings in terms of SOC etc.
Please post link to 5 kVA pure sine wave inverter with similar features for under R10k thats not Chines,'
Thanks
The_Traveller
Expert Member
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As long as you are satisfied with buying something that's going to give you trouble then I guess that's your decision.
my post was just a warning to the guys who don't know what they getting themselves into.
It's an important point to make. A R10k Chinese inverter isn't going to be nearly the same quality as a R40k European one. The internal power consumption on these inverters is also very bad which must be factored into solar price calculations.
That said though, these inverters have had a number of hardware and software revisions, mostly thanks to the Aussies who have been using and hacking them for a while and dealing with the manufacturer.
So yes, these inverters are pretty crappy, but they're still good value for money.
greg_SA
Expert Member
Voltronic have their headquarters in Taiwan, with manufacturing in Taiwan and China. I don't think they are low quality by any means... I suspect my issue was related to a SW (firmware) bug... just like you find in almost every device these days.
I'm curious to know if it is possible to update the firmware in the future?
savage
Expert Member
Whilst I haven't personally seen one unit failure, it isn't impossible for (anything having firmware) to go a bit haywire on the odd occasion I suppose. Just as a curiosity, how long have you waited (time wise) before doing the various actions that you did? The Axpert doesn't monitor itself real time (there is a bit of a delay), so I'm just wondering if perhaps, you didn't give it enough time to update and realize that there was less load.
On the firmware side, you'd be best to contact Voltronic directly. I don't know about the Axperts, but the Infini's firmware can be upgraded (a friend of mine did this one - for a similar type of issue). He got the newer firmware from Voltronic directly, but I'm not sure what is involved in terms of upgrading it.
How old is your unit? When was it bought / manufactured (warrantee sticker)?
DollyAAAA
Well-Known Member
You have been saying this a few times in this thread now. I think all of us know how you feel by now.
Are you a dissatisfied customer?
@scottwday I like your installation which I had come across some months ago. Really good job, the way you have designed the switching (the overall design) and ability to control which supply to use (mains or inverter). Your installation is my favourite (of all that have seen).
Dimpie (JIGSAW)
Honorary Master
You also do know there's a good chance that some of the hardware you're using to post these messages might also be from China?
greg_SA
Expert Member
I waiting at least 20 seconds between each step. It is strange, because there really shouldn't have ever been an overload condition, ever.
I'll have to double check the version / date details at home... but it got it about 2 months ago, and it was less than 6 months from date of manufacture... so pretty new.
I'll look into upgrading the firmware and contact Voltronic.
mmacleod
Well-Known Member
Those expensive European inverters, that are somehow magically better just because they cost a lot, do me a favour open one up some day and tell me how many of the parts are Chinese, dig into the details and tell me how many are actually 'made in china' and then just using a 'designed in Germany' or whatever loophole to claim they are German?
Are some European inverters better than some Chinese ones, sure without a doubt, can you just assume so because of the price tag, certainly not.
Are some Chinese inverters better than some European ones, also almost surely without a doubt, though it isn't necessarily the cheapest Chinese ones.
While cheaper can imply lower quality it can also imply, lower margins, lower wages, less overhead costs (as easier to source components) etc. etc. I'm pretty sure making an inverter here would cost 10x more than in China, not because it is a better inverter but because it is so ridiculously impossible to find even basic electrical components in this country and the prices are crazy.
I'm pretty sick of people thinking things are good *just* because they are expensive, its intellectually lazy. Focus less on where a product is from and more on the details.
I'm not personally thrilled by the specs of the Axpert so not in a rush to buy one, but harping on about it being Chinese is somewhat beside the point.
Are some European inverters better than some Chinese ones, sure without a doubt, can you just assume so because of the price tag, certainly not.
Are some Chinese inverters better than some European ones, also almost surely without a doubt, though it isn't necessarily the cheapest Chinese ones.
While cheaper can imply lower quality it can also imply, lower margins, lower wages, less overhead costs (as easier to source components) etc. etc. I'm pretty sure making an inverter here would cost 10x more than in China, not because it is a better inverter but because it is so ridiculously impossible to find even basic electrical components in this country and the prices are crazy.
I'm pretty sick of people thinking things are good *just* because they are expensive, its intellectually lazy. Focus less on where a product is from and more on the details.
I'm not personally thrilled by the specs of the Axpert so not in a rush to buy one, but harping on about it being Chinese is somewhat beside the point.
I think I also need to give my HO:
It might be from China, but the original design is American if my investigation is correct. You would also notice that the Watchpower software that comes with it was written by Sun Microsystems.
It might be built in China, but has been in use for at least five years in Australia (same temperature and conditions) successfully. Look on Youtube for a guy named Justin Case. He does this on a large scale and does it well too. His setup is quite impressive and even mows his lawn with his system. Over there it is manufactured under Giant Power. Also see MPP Solar that is the Taiwanese distributor (actually has a proper website and they respond well to queries.)
Even if it surrenders the white smoke after 5 years - nothing says it cannot be repaired. The power circuits are fairly similar to any inverter so unless the microprocessors give in it should be easy. On Youtube their is also a tear down of the MPP version and insides look fair.
The MPPT part performs flawlessly.
I have a 5Kva with solar. My aim is to not only get through loadshedding but also become power independent. I know most people with say Infini, but I am just not prepared to deal with feedback legal issues at this point.
A few tricks I have picked up (and believe me I have been around the block on the setup):
If you want to control or monitor your inverter with Watchpower - install everything, switch on and reset everything to default with the software - this "aligns" the software and inverter, avoids lockups and makes sure everything you see actually makes sense. You also need to manually tick all "events" to be reported to the event log - otherwise it does not work.
I also went through 2 different sets of batteries by chance - 1st a 200Ah bank and then traded that in for a 340Ah bank. All I can say is you would not believe the difference a different brand (same type) of battery makes in terms of charging characteristics and the amount of tweaks you need to make to the system in terms of voltages, back to grid, etc. to get exactly the behaviour that you require without ruining the batteries quickly. I also installed a proper battery monitor (Victron) to see what was actually going on.
Big tip - if you want the battery % to be accurate - set your final battery voltage to 42V as suggested in the AGM setting. I know this is too low, but I will never be able to run down my bank to that given my setup. This causes the inverter and charger to successfully detect when the batteries are actually low and full correctly. Many people set that to something like 46V, but in my case it made everything go awry - batteries would charge endlessly and frequent cutouts back to grid, etc.
In terms of the above error - I have never had my inverter complain about any type of overload. I have on occasion had the overload trip due to a bad set of combinations (renovations in the house with saws going on and off) and it flawlessly cut back to grid and after a period of about 10min with stable load cut back to inverter again.
All in all it just does not make business sense to spend 25K on something just because it is a Victron or Microcare (that most probably also contains Chinese components albeit here and there) where you can get the same result for 12.5K even if it lasts for 5-10 yrs. In all likelihood tech will change enough in 5 to 10 to justify a replacement in any case and then you are stuck with a 25K monster.
It might be from China, but the original design is American if my investigation is correct. You would also notice that the Watchpower software that comes with it was written by Sun Microsystems.
It might be built in China, but has been in use for at least five years in Australia (same temperature and conditions) successfully. Look on Youtube for a guy named Justin Case. He does this on a large scale and does it well too. His setup is quite impressive and even mows his lawn with his system. Over there it is manufactured under Giant Power. Also see MPP Solar that is the Taiwanese distributor (actually has a proper website and they respond well to queries.)
Even if it surrenders the white smoke after 5 years - nothing says it cannot be repaired. The power circuits are fairly similar to any inverter so unless the microprocessors give in it should be easy. On Youtube their is also a tear down of the MPP version and insides look fair.
The MPPT part performs flawlessly.
I have a 5Kva with solar. My aim is to not only get through loadshedding but also become power independent. I know most people with say Infini, but I am just not prepared to deal with feedback legal issues at this point.
A few tricks I have picked up (and believe me I have been around the block on the setup):
If you want to control or monitor your inverter with Watchpower - install everything, switch on and reset everything to default with the software - this "aligns" the software and inverter, avoids lockups and makes sure everything you see actually makes sense. You also need to manually tick all "events" to be reported to the event log - otherwise it does not work.
I also went through 2 different sets of batteries by chance - 1st a 200Ah bank and then traded that in for a 340Ah bank. All I can say is you would not believe the difference a different brand (same type) of battery makes in terms of charging characteristics and the amount of tweaks you need to make to the system in terms of voltages, back to grid, etc. to get exactly the behaviour that you require without ruining the batteries quickly. I also installed a proper battery monitor (Victron) to see what was actually going on.
Big tip - if you want the battery % to be accurate - set your final battery voltage to 42V as suggested in the AGM setting. I know this is too low, but I will never be able to run down my bank to that given my setup. This causes the inverter and charger to successfully detect when the batteries are actually low and full correctly. Many people set that to something like 46V, but in my case it made everything go awry - batteries would charge endlessly and frequent cutouts back to grid, etc.
In terms of the above error - I have never had my inverter complain about any type of overload. I have on occasion had the overload trip due to a bad set of combinations (renovations in the house with saws going on and off) and it flawlessly cut back to grid and after a period of about 10min with stable load cut back to inverter again.
All in all it just does not make business sense to spend 25K on something just because it is a Victron or Microcare (that most probably also contains Chinese components albeit here and there) where you can get the same result for 12.5K even if it lasts for 5-10 yrs. In all likelihood tech will change enough in 5 to 10 to justify a replacement in any case and then you are stuck with a 25K monster.
Yes its a generalisation, but it's based on evidence.
It comes down to parts like the capacitors and the FETs which are rated to operate at a certain load and temperature for a certain time. The ratings affect the prices considerably. The Chinese stuff is designed down to a price, the European stuff comes with a long warranty because they know the parts will last.
Yes the overheads and labour costs of the Chinese stuff is lower which is why it's better value for money. But you can't say the quality is comparable either.
Google the PIP4048, you'll find plenty of people having to replace caps and fets.
Sun Microsystems make Java, which that program was written in.
At the end of the day I think the Axpert is a good buy, just don't run it near full load for any length of time.