Axpert invertors

theghid said:
Hi Everyone.

I just received my Axpert 5KVa and 8x Deltec BD-54-105Ah batteries a couple of weeks ago and had the electrician come through to install it.

My house has a 3 phase setup and 2 DB's, one upstairs and the main one downstairs. After a 3 full days of work we isolated all the plugs and lights we wanted to back up using the inverter and moved both the upstairs and downstairs circuits onto a single phase.

The inverter works fine and switches perfectly to battery when you trip the main breaker, however when Eskom cuts the power during load shedding its just displays error 58 and shuts off. You can manually restart the inverter and it will work but only with the main breaker in the off position.

It also shows an AC input of ~230V even when the utility power is switched off and the batteries are providing power to the DB. My guess is there is an error in the wiring and the inverter is being confused and detecting its own power source as the utility.

My house wiring is very complex and was a nightmare to isolate circuits, so let me know if you would like some pics of setup.

Any ideas of what could be wrong would be much appreciated.
Click to expand...

I'm no electrician (thankfully) - but going on my personal experience with my installation, and working through similar symptoms, I'm inclined to say this sounds very much like an EARTH problem which plagued me. I could well be wrong but might be a good starting point.

Note: This is my personal opinion based on my personal experience with a similar issue on my personal DB/Inverter hookup. had to put that in because sure enough, there will be people flaming in a bit.
 
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theghid said:
Hi Everyone.

I just received my Axpert 5KVa and 8x Deltec BD-54-105Ah batteries a couple of weeks ago and had the electrician come through to install it.

My house has a 3 phase setup and 2 DB's, one upstairs and the main one downstairs. After a 3 full days of work we isolated all the plugs and lights we wanted to back up using the inverter and moved both the upstairs and downstairs circuits onto a single phase.

The inverter works fine and switches perfectly to battery when you trip the main breaker, however when Eskom cuts the power during load shedding its just displays error 58 and shuts off. You can manually restart the inverter and it will work but only with the main breaker in the off position.

It also shows an AC input of ~230V even when the utility power is switched off and the batteries are providing power to the DB. My guess is there is an error in the wiring and the inverter is being confused and detecting its own power source as the utility.

My house wiring is very complex and was a nightmare to isolate circuits, so let me know if you would like some pics of setup.

Any ideas of what could be wrong would be much appreciated.
Click to expand...

There's definitely an installation fault there somewhere IMHO. I am GUESSING, but it sounds like your Inverter's output, is somehow looped back into your Inverter's input (this can potentially also be very, very dangerous). This also means that you'll be feeding back to the grid when Eskom does load shedding, which in return means you're powering your neighbors too, and therefore, the inverter croaks with a overload error.

Finding WHERE the fault is... Good luck. You're more than likely looking at another good few days worth of troubleshooting. It sounds like you've got a fairly large installation. That bridge (output to input) could be anywhere :( Shoddy work by the sparkie - but also in the same breath, it's SO easy to get something like this wrong, especially on 3-Phase.
 
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I have uploaded a folder to my Google Drive containing pics and a description of my setup for anyone interested in having a look and their advice. https://goo.gl/YtJFoc. Give me a shout here on the forum if you need any more info. Thanks in advance.
 
What is a decent price for a electrician to only connect the wires from inverter to db board? They are next to each other. Everything has been installed, including the batteries to the inverter(with a pull down safety switch), the panels to the inverter, the earth (copper pole in the ground) has been done, but also need to be connected. I got the price from electricain yesterday and can't understand why it cost so much just to connect the wires. The electrician was happy with the installation of the things already done. Does anybody knows of someone in the Northern suburbs in Capetown that could do that for a decent price?
 
Marie1 said:
What is a decent price for a electrician to only connect the wires from inverter to db board? They are next to each other. Everything has been installed, including the batteries to the inverter(with a pull down safety switch), the panels to the inverter, the earth (copper pole in the ground) has been done, but also need to be connected. I got the price from electricain yesterday and can't understand why it cost so much just to connect the wires. The electrician was happy with the installation of the things already done. Does anybody knows of someone in the Northern suburbs in Capetown that could do that for a decent price?
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Keep in mind that you'll have to get a CoC after work has been done. That also costs money to be issued.

Have a word with savage. He's in Bothasig.
 
theghid said:
Hi Everyone.

I just received my Axpert 5KVa and 8x Deltec BD-54-105Ah batteries a couple of weeks ago and had the electrician come through to install it.

My house has a 3 phase setup and 2 DB's, one upstairs and the main one downstairs. After a 3 full days of work we isolated all the plugs and lights we wanted to back up using the inverter and moved both the upstairs and downstairs circuits onto a single phase.

The inverter works fine and switches perfectly to battery when you trip the main breaker, however when Eskom cuts the power during load shedding its just displays error 58 and shuts off. You can manually restart the inverter and it will work but only with the main breaker in the off position.

It also shows an AC input of ~230V even when the utility power is switched off and the batteries are providing power to the DB. My guess is there is an error in the wiring and the inverter is being confused and detecting its own power source as the utility.

My house wiring is very complex and was a nightmare to isolate circuits, so let me know if you would like some pics of setup.

Any ideas of what could be wrong would be much appreciated.
Click to expand...

From the manual: Fault code 58: Output abnormal (Inverter voltage below than 190Vac or is higher than 260Vac)
Action: 1. Reduce the connected load.
2. Return to repair center
Not sure what could be causing that, most likely the apparent "loop" or "bridge" you have somewhere. When the circuits were isolated, were all the correct neutrals identified and moved across?
 
Schicks said:
Not sure what could be causing that, most likely the apparent "loop" or "bridge" you have somewhere. When the circuits were isolated, were all the correct neutrals identified and moved across?
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theghid, if the inverter output goes through an Earth Leakage breaker then there is a good chance it will trip if you have in incorrect neutral connection. This can help help with fault finding. If you run normal plugs off the inverter then EL is a requirement anyway.
 
Schicks said:
Not sure what could be causing that, most likely the apparent "loop" or "bridge" you have somewhere. When the circuits were isolated, were all the correct neutrals identified and moved across?
Click to expand...

Im not sure how to test if all the neutrals are correct, however all the plugs in the house seem to work fine and aren't causing any tripping.

The electrician has suggested installing a contactor to solve this problem. Im not sure if this is a good idea or just a botch fix, I doubt that this is they way theses products are designed. Please chime in as to whether this is a good solution or not (i'm quite a noob at this stuff).
 
If an "electrician" installed it, they should fix it IMO.

I can't help but laugh at these "electrician", 90% of them have no f@#$ idea what they are doing.

Your Eskom supply should come in, then you typically have pumps, geysers, stove(s) connected to Eskom supply only. Most of your plugs should stay on Eskom only also.

Then there is a breaker that is hard-wired to the inverter, it goes to the inverter and a second DB panel or back to your DB panel (if correctly labelled) and wired to a sub distribution that only includes your lights and some of your plugs.
Preferable the sub breakers should have a single breaker that is also an RCD. That is a legal requirement if the plugs aren't dedicated (red, black or blue plug with flat earth pin at various angles).

No contactor is needed when using that inverter.

I mean maybe it is time to get a second opinion. The setup this guy did sounds super dangerous.
 
Gnome said:
If an "electrician" installed it, they should fix it IMO.
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He is a qualified electrician (so he says and he is able to issue COC's). He has come back to look at the problem and this when he suggested the contactor. Do you think that maybe he has not separated the neutrals?
 
theghid said:
He is a qualified electrician (so he says and he is able to issue COC's). He has come back to look at the problem and this when he suggested the contactor. Do you think that maybe he has not separated the neutrals?
Click to expand...

I have no idea. It is pretty much a guess without seeing anything or having it described. Can you take pictures?

Ideally you should take a picture of the Inverter, the DB board and the DB with the front cover removed.
If there is a separate DB for the inverter, take a picture of that also.
 
Gnome said:
I have no idea. It is pretty much a guess without seeing anything or having it described. Can you take pictures?

Ideally you should take a picture of the Inverter, the DB board and the DB with the front cover removed.
If there is a separate DB for the inverter, take a picture of that also.
Click to expand...
I have uploaded a folder to my Google Drive containing pics and a description of my setup for anyone interested in having a look and their advice. https://goo.gl/YtJFoc.
 
The way I've understood your installation is that the red phase section has been used as the new emergency section, i.e. fed from the inverter. If that's the case check that the neutral bars are not still connected across all three phases. Don't know if that would be causing your problem, but you've got to start somewhere.

Installing a contactor might make the system work, but it's not fixing the problem.
 
Schicks said:
The way I've understood your installation is that the red phase section has been used as the new emergency section, i.e. fed from the inverter. If that's the case check that the neutral bars are not still connected across all three phases. Don't know if that would be causing your problem, but you've got to start somewhere.

Installing a contactor might make the system work, but it's not fixing the problem.
Click to expand...

Yep, you are understanding the setup correctly, I'll contact the electrician and suggest that to him. Thanks.
 
theghid said:
I have uploaded a folder to my Google Drive containing pics and a description of my setup for anyone interested in having a look and their advice. https://goo.gl/YtJFoc.
Click to expand...

Wow, you have a lot of sections. Do you live in mansion or something.

Ok, so first things first. This setup is completely illegal, it is incredible dangerous if it is what I believe I am seeing here. (hard because the picture doesn't show where every wire is going).

In your red phase it looks like the guy just went and put the inverter in parallel with the RCD that is fed from Eskom power.

Wow. Just wow. That would mean you are back feeding into the grid.
 
Gnome said:
Wow, you have a lot of sections. Do you live in mansion or something.

Ok, so first things first. This setup is completely illegal, it is incredible dangerous if it is what I believe I am seeing here. (hard because the picture doesn't show where every wire is going).

In your red phase it looks like the guy just went and put the inverter in parallel with the RCD that is fed from Eskom power.

Wow. Just wow. That would mean you are back feeding into the grid.
Click to expand...


1) If you think this board is a mess, just remember that there is an upstairs DB of the same size, so yea.

2) Okay guys, a little weekend project for all those who are brave enough to chime in on this setup :D. I have submitted a circuit diagram I found online of how the inverter should be wired and the electrician has added his notes, and claims that mine is wired the as per the diagram. Please see my google drive for full info. https://goo.gl/YtJFoc. Note the contactor has not been installed yet as I am waiting to get a better opinion of what should be done.

3)If you need any more detailed pics, just give a shout on the forum, I'll be here all weekend. I'll try get the electrician to point out clearly which wires are doing what, but most likely only on Monday.

Thanks in advance, Good Luck.
 
theghid said:
2) Okay guys, a little weekend project for all those who are brave enough to chime in on this setup :D. I have submitted a circuit diagram I found online of how the inverter should be wired and the electrician has added his notes, and claims that mine is wired the as per the diagram. Please see my google drive for full info. https://goo.gl/YtJFoc. Note the contactor has not been installed yet as I am waiting to get a better opinion of what should be done.
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That part added in pen in the bottom right hand corner. It looks like the mains red is tied to the isolator output? But the isolator is fed from the inverter output? If this is how it is wired, you have the inverter's input tied to the output.
 
@theghid Next time there's load shedding drop all your breakers except the main breaker. See if your inverter works normal. If it does bring the breakers up one by one. It may be one breaker is incorrectly wired to both inverter and mains, so during load shedding it may be providing the path back to feed the grid, with the main breaker down the path to the grid (via the breaker wired to both) is broken. Just an hypothesis, I'm not an electrician.
 
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