BDS vs Woolworths

grantza said:
the money - yes, it's coming from shoppers who are prepared to pay more, and your card is linked to a charity of your choice, so there is no big loss there.
why do we need pharrell ?
you refer to him as a singer ("WW could not find one black SA based performer"), which indicates you know very little of him.
he's more than just a singer, significantly more - in fact he does not do that much singing.
he has partnered with woolworths as fashion director for a range of clothing which is where he will showcase young local talent - keep in mind he has a massively successful clothing range, going so far as to design a jewelry range for loius vuitton.
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Yes Grantza, he is a singer. And yes we could build our own _______ (artist or jack of all trades created "super star" here).

Grantza, Woolworths is not Takashimaya. We are a poor developing nation. We don't need to partner with foreign guys like this at the expense of local people. WW is not an exclusive store. Their clothing is not LV or Gucci. Their brands are below better brands like French Connection, Ben Sherman, Polo, Hugo Boss, etc, although their quality in general terms is very good. I don't see a need to partner with someone who designed something for LV with which less than 1% of South Africans do business. It would work well in East Asia, not in SA.

so, yes, we are importing a global superstar, woolworths wants someone with talent, experience and reputation to drive this clothing range.
and, he is the king of cool - this helps kids take an interest in something they may not be interested in, or find "un-cool".
clearly he has a great interest in the welfare and development of kids:
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He would still be doing those things and he could still come to SA and do these things without Woolworths if he cares for poor black youths here. Point is that we are not developing our own and exporting money overseas and promoting a foreigner a time when our trade deficit is high and our Rand is weak. We are not South Korea or Taiwan with very rich people, we are a poor country where even the middle class here does not compare to 1st World middle classes. What we could do with is local talent and exporting of such overseas.

But yeah marketing and cheap glitz triumph all. People are so superficial. I'm surprised grantza that you're defending this BS and falling for basic hype.
 
Space_Chief said:
How are they raising this money? It's not foreign money but money from SA shoppers paying inflated WW prices for products and service which is becoming worse IMO. Is it not the case?

And why do we need "Pharrell Williams?"

In the era of the tanking Rand we want to employ a US singer? We have no local talent here we could develop or use?

Unless of course Williams is doing all of this pro bono. But that's the ONLY way I'd consider this rational.

For black WW shoppers, ladies and gents, remember this. WW could not find one black SA based performer, to do this. They chose to import a foreigner. Think about it. An SA company in a country of over 50 million has to import a foreigner because it helps their marketing. How about running a comp from local high schools or finding local talent and then building up a new celebrity, whose music we could even export.

We could have a Soweto based performer, whose records would be sold in Chicago and Detroit and such foreign dollars could really boost our economy. Taking money from locals for fundraising is not benefiting the economy at all.
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WW is accountable to its shareholders. Pretty sure they did the math. Share price is indicative of that. The bottom line is what matters.
 
Vrotappel said:
WW is accountable to its shareholders. Pretty sure they did the math. Share price is indicative of that. The bottom line is what matters.
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I know that. But making most profit for your shareholders based on local money is one thing. It's also a marketing campaign which people should see through and ignore. At a time of *perceptions of corporate responsibility and perceptions of needing to uplift our own people we see a campaign which focuses on a foreign dude instead of building up local talent.

Look there are 3 issues here. One issue is making money for WW. Yes WW can do what they want within law and within perception. Profit is king. That's obvious. I'm not discussing this.

The other issue is how WW is seen by its customers, people who buy at WW and who are responsible for WW's profits. Maybe local people are gullible. Frankly I don't know anyone who knows F Williams - but I mix with highly educated, older (>30), professional people where the lowest degree is a master's. But yeah maybe kids on the street associate with the hype of F Williams. Although once WW partners with the dude, he is no longer as cool as he should be because anti-establishment people tend to be more cool. ;)

At the end, for anyone who spends a few minutes thinking about this, WW is not helping SA but helping their own profits. In the long run it will also bite them in the a-ss as South Africans become poorer they will earn less in SA. They can always buy another Australian label maybe, then. :)

The third issue is a moral issue. What should a business morally do? I would hope WW would show loyalty to the people who actually spend most money there and made them.

*note I said perceptions. There is no corporate responsibility except in cases SJWs or ideologues have a hold over a company. In most cases the companies act in self centered interest to appear to act for good causes: social upliftment and environment are two of the biggest causes.
 
Space_Chief said:
Yes Grantza, he is a singer. And yes we could build our own _______ (artist or jack of all trades created "super star" here).
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that is not the sole responsibility of woolworths - they are not the only entity in the land.
that aside:
A better world needs better design. That’s why, in addition to Woolworths’s longstanding sponsorship of Design Indaba, we’ve made enriching design education and mentoring young designers an integral part of our sustainability programme, which we call our Good Business Journey. Through our Making the Difference Through Design Educational Programme, we’re encouraging young South
Africans to explore their own creativity. We want to help them gain a better understanding of the contribution design makes to our country’s economy and to solving the critical challenges facing South Africa and the world today. In addition, we’re mentoring and giving talented young designers real work experience in our own creative studio. We’re also involved in a fashion design “exchange programme” between the Cape Peninsula University of Technology and Kingston University in the UK. In other words, we not only talk the talk, we walk the walk.
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http://www.designindaba.com/profiles/woolworths


Space_Chief said:
Point is that we are not developing our own and exporting money overseas and promoting a foreigner a time when our trade deficit is high and our Rand is weak.
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lets assume, for discussion purposes, it cost R20m to bring him here (i have no idea as to the costing mechanism), but in doing so, woolworth achieves the target of raising R100m for education - would you not agree that is a good return on investment ?

Space_Chief said:
I'm surprised grantza that you're defending this BS and falling for basic hype.
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if the goal is reached i'm all for it - again and again.

let me ask you this, assume you are ceo of woolworths (or whatever company), since we dont need pharrell williams, who locally would you suggest he be replaced with ?
 
grantza said:
that is not the sole responsibility of woolworths - they are not the only entity in the land.
that aside:

http://www.designindaba.com/profiles/woolworths
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Oh they sponsor some people. So why not source people from here?



lets assume, for discussion purposes, it cost R20m to bring him here (i have no idea as to the costing mechanism), but in doing so, woolworth achieves the target of raising R100m for education - would you not agree that is a good return on investment ?
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Yes it's bad. Because the 100 mil raised were done from local customers who spent ZAR here. They meanwhile shipped R20 mil worth of Rand abroad. It's really bad. And they enriched some foreigner. What would be better to nurture local talent and then ship that music and those clothes to peeps in Detroit, Palm Beach and Chicago to buy. But hey that's just expecting too much.


if the goal is reached i'm all for it - again and again.
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Shows you drink the KoolAid.

let me ask you this, assume you are ceo of woolworths (or whatever company), since we dont need pharrell williams, who locally would you suggest he be replaced with ?
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A new person or maybe even a small team of diverse persons. Maybe newbs. Coached by local designers. See designindaba above.
 
Unconfirmed reports from my muslim colleague yesterday.
- At the AGM Woolworths announced that it will no longer buy products from Israel.

Can anyone verify? Can't find anything on the news reports or Woolies Facebook page.

Looks like bs from BDS.
 
AGM for this year is only in November and if it was in last years AGM it would have been in the news by now, definitely untrue
 
If they do..I stop buying from Woolies. And I spend a LOT there.
 
Space_Chief said:
What would be better to nurture local talent and then ship that music and those clothes to peeps in Detroit, Palm Beach and Chicago to buy. But hey that's just expecting too much.
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Not really interested, nor do I care what the latest hulabaloo is about. Simply commenting on the above.
Basic truth. You cannot nurture local <anything> to be at international standards without having it compete locally against international standards first. There is no nurturing by protection, only by competition. It's an old falacy to nurture by ringfencing. You simply weaken it for lack of international competition.

Which is why SA <everything> is not up to international standards. The more it's 'nurtured', the worse it gets. It's like inbreeding, not a good idea.
 
3Gee said:
Seems the boycott is over, Woolies buckled

http://www.nc4psa.com/nc4p-media-re...d-anniversary-following-various-achievements/
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From your link:

– Another achievement of the campaign was the undertaking, and subsequent affirmation by Woolworths at its recent AGM, that it will not purchase any Israeli goods from the occupied Palestinian territories.

– In a first for South Africa, activists also turned to large scale shareholder activism having bought several individual shares in the company, as well as convincing larger shareholders to lend campaigners their AGM proxies. The allowed activists to attend two Woolworth AGM’s and take the company to task on various issues including its trade with Israel and other related issues such as labour exploitation by the company and local procurement (click here http://tinyurl.com/h3uabgk or here http://www.iol.co.za/business/companies/woolworths-directors-grilled-at-agm-1953166)
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I clicked "here": http://www.iol.co.za/business/companies/woolworths-directors-grilled-at-agm-1953166

According to Susman and the group chief executive, Ian Moir, 92 percent of the company’s products were sourced locally and only one-tenth of 1 percent was imported from Israel.

Moir said: “Our trade report that one-tenth of 1 percent is sourced from Israel, products such as figs and pretzels. We are also committed to sourcing 92 percent of our products in South Africa. We source whatever we can get where we can. If we can’t get in SA we will get it elsewhere.”

A priest who attended the meeting appealed to the board from a humanitarian aspect. “In this 16 days of activism, violence against women and children is what happens daily in Palestine while you are talking about profit. Is that (one-tenth of 1 percent) percent worth a child’s life? I find it heartbreaking. It is not ethical to trade with Israel. No child’s life is worth it.”

A woman from Palestine, who was part of the BDS group, told the executives of the hardships Palestinians faced.

“I beg you to go to Palestine and see for yourself. You don’t know what it means to be in Palestine, to have your childhood there. We have no airports, numerous check points and no economy of our own – everything is owned by the Israelis. Before you continue with business and your policies go there and then decide.”

Susman responded to the statements, saying that they were not “belittling” the situation in Israel. “The decision to source any product is not made by the country, but about the product and supply. Government has a treaty with Israel and has not set any sanctions.”
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I don't see any "affirmation".
 
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