BEE

Heita_Hola said:
Are you African?
Simple YES/NO!
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Its more along the lines of insisting on reparations for past injustices; which ultimately leads to a dependence on the West (and soon the Far East).

Unfortunately history has shown we must move on, forgive and forget. In history that attitude caused the formation of Nazi Germany; fortunately the Allies learnt after the Second World War it was not the correct approach.
 
dlk001 said:
True. My white bosses in Minneapolis don't think much about African Americans there. Funny thing, they seem to differentiate me from them despite being Black myself.
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Interesting. And the African-American's attitude to you?
 
timgaul said:
Interesting. And the African-American's attitude to you?
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In Minneapolis, my White American bosses treated me second class to local African Americans. The few African Americans I met had a negative attitude towards me.

In Australia (WA), they treated me second class to the Aborigine people. During a trip from Perth to Kalgoorlie, the train hostess pleaded with me to seat on another vacant seat, away from the Aborigine who was next to me. :( They also treated me second class to other darker African people because they believed I was African American. Amazing racially dynamics! :)

At varsity, Australian girls were so keen to touch my hair and remove my towel while working from the showers. Well, I liked the attention! :D

In SA, my previous boss treated Zim, Ghana people second class to Black South Africans. Its the same thing that happened while I was at UCT. Again, its another amazing thing I simply could not understand. What I do know is that it resulted in tensions/divide between Black SA and other Black Africans!

I think it will take generations to change the mindset between races in SA! There is a lot to be learned about each other still. A lot more than we individually think we know!
 
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timgaul said:
Thats cool, thats great. Let the income earners have a level playing field. Nevermind that 100% functioning businesses could much better contribute to the money that would go to uplifting (the majority) the poor. But thats cool as long as at least 10% of this country benefits - to hell with the other 90%, they're poor anyway they'll die soon.

Grrr... no foresight! IT IS EXACTLY LIKE EVERY OTHER GOVERNMENT INITIATIVE. Can't see the future outcome as long as the here and now is satisfied. Typical of this continent. No big picture.
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I know what I said may sound wishy washy to you but answer the following:
Why were the businesses not contributing to the upliftment of the majority prior to 1994? Because they did not have to. A number of corporates I was working with would only employ mainly white kids out of school. For two reason, one that the HR was mostly all white, and secondly because black/coloured had an inferior education(schools and tertiary). If we did not have the legislation nothing would have changed. If we only have 10% of the black population uplifted, that is a hell of a lot more than would have been uplifted without the legislation. Realisticaly we will always have poor people and we are unlikely to uplift the vast majority. We will have more stability and equity if we at least uplift some.
 
BEE will not go away but it will continue to evolve. Hopefully and thankfully it will dissolve to something like Broad Economic Empowerment that would focus on education and skills development for all.

What is critical for the next evolution stage of BEE scorecard is the involvement of a wider group of interested and affected parties. Government sees itself as an interested party. Business, Educational Institutions, the wider SA Working Society and the Youth, are the affected parties. From the lessons learned, everyone could put heads together and come up with a compromise and workable system.

Sticking to current BEE issues, BEE Sorted has a free ‘pdf’ document on how to measure BEE scorecards. It has examples based on a Big Corporations using the Generic Scorecard down to a Start-up Enterprise using the Qualifying Small Enterprises scorecard.

Our company has no HDSA ownership or management control but we score on many elements of the QSE scorecard.
 
Toffee said:
I know what I said may sound wishy washy to you but answer the following:
Why were the businesses not contributing to the upliftment of the majority prior to 1994? Because they did not have to. A number of corporates I was working with would only employ mainly white kids out of school. For two reason, one that the HR was mostly all white, and secondly because black/coloured had an inferior education(schools and tertiary). If we did not have the legislation nothing would have changed. If we only have 10% of the black population uplifted, that is a hell of a lot more than would have been uplifted without the legislation. Realisticaly we will always have poor people and we are unlikely to uplift the vast majority. We will have more stability and equity if we at least uplift some.
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Tell that to the poor bloke sleeping on a park bench. So you're advocating that the ANC is no better than the NP; literally they don't give a damn about the masses and are only in it to create a black elite where most of the money is going to go? Much better, aren't the poor masses glad they stood in line for so long in 1994 - because it made no once ounce of difference to their lives!

Unfortunately with a disgruntled majority they have ways, other than the ballot, to change their lot in life.
 
BEE has nothing to do with upliftment and everything to do with BEE deals.

BEE will never "fix" the problem because the problem has nothing to do with white racism and everything to do with lazy stupid *******s that want everything for free - and want to stick it to the white man. There are plenty of poor, lazy stupid people in the world, not all are black, in fact many are white, indian and chinese (loads of chinese ones but then they have the numbers advantage :) )

China deals with this by implementing communism, and I would not be surprised to see Azania do the same except where the chinese government are smart, our government ballies are as thick as bricks.

Expect plenty of pain and suffering in the not too distant future. Right now they are playing cautiously because their PRIDE demands WC2010 but once that event is over, then they can get back to doing the things they REALLY want to do - raping the country and sticking it to the white man.
 
timgaul said:
Tell that to the poor bloke sleeping on a park bench. So you're advocating that the ANC is no better than the NP; literally they don't give a damn about the masses and are only in it to create a black elite where most of the money is going to go? Much better, aren't the poor masses glad they stood in line for so long in 1994 - because it made no once ounce of difference to their lives!

Unfortunately with a disgruntled majority they have ways, other than the ballot, to change their lot in life.
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Well i hope that the majority do start to vote with their feet if they do feel disgruntled. As far as im aware BEE and EE has failed everywhere it had been implemented in the past for very similar reasons that it is failing here. But then again, learning from others mistakes is not on the agenda either. So troddle forth we do......
 
dlk001 said:
BEE will not go away but it will continue to evolve. Hopefully and thankfully it will dissolve to something like Broad Economic Empowerment that would focus on education and skills development for all.

What is critical for the next evolution stage of BEE scorecard is the involvement of a wider group of interested and affected parties. Government sees itself as an interested party. Business, Educational Institutions, the wider SA Working Society and the Youth, are the affected parties. From the lessons learned, everyone could put heads together and come up with a compromise and workable system.

Sticking to current BEE issues, BEE Sorted has a free ‘pdf’ document on how to measure BEE scorecards. It has examples based on a Big Corporations using the Generic Scorecard down to a Start-up Enterprise using the Qualifying Small Enterprises scorecard.

Our company has no HDSA ownership or management control but we score on many elements of the QSE scorecard.
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I went to the BEE sorted website, and it requires me to register. And when I try register, it wants a BBBEE number?? Could you possibly send me the PDF or supply a direct link.
 
Thanks for that dlk ... I just discovered that because Digital Addiction is a micro-enterprise ... even though it is 100% white owned, I am still automatically given level4 BEE status :) ... so I can actually sell to BEE deals. Now I just need to figure out how to find tenders :p.
 
Marine1, I just got the ass end of this conversation, mainly because I have sort of lost a bit of interest in the forum because it doesn't really apply to me anymore. Nothing against you guys, this forum has been a GREAT source of debate and info in the past. But, with regards to moving to OZ, I landed here in Brisbane about 3 months ago, and honestly, one of the best things here so far is - you dont need to deal with crap like this anymore. You find yourself sometimes still reading up to see what is happening back in SA and how your family and friends may be affected, but, it is a great feeling to not have to worry about stuff like this. Guys at work found it hard to believe that they have a system like BEE in place in SA.

So, trying to keep this short before nimrod/ironrod tries to enlighten everyone with his words of wisdom again - yeah, some stuff is a lot more expensive here, but I don't find myself out of pocket. I have enough cash left to get my hands on all the goodies I want because you pay significantly less on stuff like insurance and medical aid etc. And, living in a 1st world country, you also get to join the party with all the services that arent in SA like iTunes (I heard SA is getting some "lite" version of it), Xbox live AND ebay - man, I love ebay. Buy something and 2 days later it gets delivered at your door. Sometimes when you arent home, they just leave the package at the front door - and guess what - the package is still there when you get home. The delivery lady knows me by now and have given me numbers of other saffers in the area if I want to contact them. I completely LOVE what I have found here and I am pretty sure I will never look back. Let me not even start with the public health care system. My 2yr old son had an accident on Tuesday, 74TV fell on him when he pulled the cabinet over. He has 2 fractures in his scull and is still in hospital. Arrived at hospital, was given a bed without filling in any forms/paying quazillions of dollars upfront. Went for cat scan like 5 mins later (while he was there they asked the wife for her medicare number - and that was it). He's in a PUBLIC hospital that I have to say is way better than any private hospital I've even been to in SA. The nurses are friendly (and HOT :)), there are play rooms for the kids all over the place, they have these portable game console thingamajigs that you can wheel to his bed for him to play games/watch DVD's. There are all these volunteers that pitch up with toys and stuff for them - the experience has been great. If I was still in SA and went to a public hospital, he would probably still be lying on the floor in some hallway.

There is obviously stuff that is not so nice here, but it pales in comparision to all that is nice and good here. So, mate, good choice. If you happen to go to Brisbane, give me a shout when you get here and I'll show you the works.

Cheers
 
I do agree that thats not fair.
He should just get a non white manager, pay him peanuts and then change the company name to something more local.
His problem is he is in mining, so its a natural resource which government can have higher authority on.
 
SuperMonkey said:
just a question, no more. should government really have high authority on mining and natural resources? is this solely the fair thing in society?
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They shouldn't but they effectively nationalised mineral rights so there's not much we can do.
 
sleeper said:
I have to say is way better than any private hospital I've even been to in SA.
Cheers
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I agree with everything else but this. Our doctors (in the pvt hospitals - sandton medi clinic to be exact) have far more knowledge and experience than those abroad.

concerning the topic, as much as i hate to say this , either get used to it or get out like sleeper.
 
sleeper said:
Marine1, I just got the ass end of this conversation, mainly because I have sort of lost a bit of interest in the forum because it doesn't really apply to me anymore. Nothing against you guys, this forum has been a GREAT source of debate and info in the past. But, with regards to moving to OZ, I landed here in Brisbane about 3 months ago, and honestly, one of the best things here so far is - you dont need to deal with crap like this anymore. You find yourself sometimes still reading up to see what is happening back in SA and how your family and friends may be affected, but, it is a great feeling to not have to worry about stuff like this. Guys at work found it hard to believe that they have a system like BEE in place in SA.

So, trying to keep this short before nimrod/ironrod tries to enlighten everyone with his words of wisdom again - yeah, some stuff is a lot more expensive here, but I don't find myself out of pocket. I have enough cash left to get my hands on all the goodies I want because you pay significantly less on stuff like insurance and medical aid etc. And, living in a 1st world country, you also get to join the party with all the services that arent in SA like iTunes (I heard SA is getting some "lite" version of it), Xbox live AND ebay - man, I love ebay. Buy something and 2 days later it gets delivered at your door. Sometimes when you arent home, they just leave the package at the front door - and guess what - the package is still there when you get home. The delivery lady knows me by now and have given me numbers of other saffers in the area if I want to contact them. I completely LOVE what I have found here and I am pretty sure I will never look back. Let me not even start with the public health care system. My 2yr old son had an accident on Tuesday, 74TV fell on him when he pulled the cabinet over. He has 2 fractures in his scull and is still in hospital. Arrived at hospital, was given a bed without filling in any forms/paying quazillions of dollars upfront. Went for cat scan like 5 mins later (while he was there they asked the wife for her medicare number - and that was it). He's in a PUBLIC hospital that I have to say is way better than any private hospital I've even been to in SA. The nurses are friendly (and HOT :)), there are play rooms for the kids all over the place, they have these portable game console thingamajigs that you can wheel to his bed for him to play games/watch DVD's. There are all these volunteers that pitch up with toys and stuff for them - the experience has been great. If I was still in SA and went to a public hospital, he would probably still be lying on the floor in some hallway.

There is obviously stuff that is not so nice here, but it pales in comparision to all that is nice and good here. So, mate, good choice. If you happen to go to Brisbane, give me a shout when you get here and I'll show you the works.

Cheers
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Hi mate thanks for the kind words and the information. Look forward to getting there by next year. :)
 
Parreira to the rescue

Just to get back on topic here - I think we should insist/demand that we get a BEE coach - even take it to the concourt.

Parreira to the rescue

Carlos Alberto Parreira is poised to return to South African soccer — just four months after resigning as Bafana Bafana coach.
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