Big things happening at Nokia...

Like Apple, right?

I can see where that got them.

Apple manufacturers ipods, desktops, laptops, servers, etc.

Apple is not just dependant on their iPhone sales, but the HUGE advantage they have, is that they own iOS.

Nokia only manufacture phones, with Microsoft owning the OS.
 
At the moment, where WP is falling short, Nokia chips in with advantages in hardware for WP in terms of overall appeal. This is why MS chose Nokia as its partner.

To me, Nokia chose WP. MS have other WP partners (Samsung, HTC etc.)

Customisability is just one of the draw cards of a smartphone. I tried to emphasise the fact that it is not what everybody is looking for by stressing the whatever that means part. This was intentional, I do know what customisability means. The issue is, customizability is not the only (or even one of the major) issues that most people look at when buying smartphones. It is for Android Geeks and faithfuls, not for everyone. Some people don't know what that means, or even what OS their phones are running on. The sales people are the ones who look at this kind of thing.

You are confusing customisability, with a basic subset of features that a plethora of users expect as standard. Don't, it does not exonerate WP as the half thought-out OS that it currently is.

However, people still think for themselves and hardware, price and reputation still play a huge part in the smartphone equation. Thats why Samsung are succeeding, not because of Android alone. Nokia and MS bring this point together and this is one of the reasons why WP will succeed. These are tried and tested brands in the industry and the results of the reasons why they are tried and tested are now beginning to show.

I disagree. Samsung have massive sales on their Android devices. By contrast, HTC are struggling despite having superior hardware. Same applies with Nokia and WP to be honest.

MS are not a tried and trusted brand in the mobile space. This is their limiting factor, and Nokia are paying the price for it.

Nokia will draw people to WP with its excellent hardware while WP catches up to the developmental (not necessarily appeal and security) level of iOS and Android. Keep in mind the fact that one of the appeals of Android was that it looks like iOS. Since this has been put to shame, even some of its faithfuls are quite likely starting to doubt it.

This statement is a bit silly- Samsung were accused of mimicking iOS, not Android as a whole. Additionally, look at Android's growth over the past year as an example:

http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS23946013

Android continued its overall upward trajectory, reaching triple-digit growth for the year. Samsung was the biggest contributor to Android's success, amassing 42.0% of all Android smartphone shipments during the year. Following Samsung was a long list of vendors with single digit market share, and an even longer list of vendors with market share less than one percent. The intra-Android competition has not stifled companies from keeping Android as the cornerstone of their respective smartphone strategies, but has upped the ante to innovate proprietary experiences.

Despite WP's excellent growth (really good for the market), if they keep focusing on the middle to lower tiers, they will stagnate sooner rather than later. There needs to be a cohesive decision making process regarding the direction of the OS, which to my mind still remains up in the air.
 
I was following the Samsung/Apple case fairly closely and one of the issues was that the OS of its devices is also a copyright breach. Samsung doesn't design Android.

Correct.

But Samsung does Windows Phone as well.

I reckon if they should focus on Windows Phone, they will hurt Nokia big time.

However, Samsung said Windows Phone handsets are not selling well & not worth the investment.
 
I was following the Samsung/Apple case fairly closely and one of the issues was that the OS of its devices is also a copyright breach. Samsung doesn't design Android.

Samsung designs the overlaying UI that was purportedly a copy of iOS, not Android as a whole. This was the focus of the trial.
 
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I think Nokia has something to say about that. It doesn't look like a direct copy IMO.

I think it quite blatant. Both are black. Both are rectangular with rounded corners. Both have speakers (thin rectangular) at the top, and three buttons at the bottom. Both have a large touch screen between the buttons and the speakers. Both have the time at the top right hand corner.

This is as blatant a rip as they come. For shame.
 

Only problem most of the seem to forget/ignore is that Android had 2 designs from the get go. Yes there was the old Blackberry look no argument there, but there was also the fullscreen version as seen in the second part of this vid:

[video=youtube;1FJHYqE0RDg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FJHYqE0RDg[/video]

More proof is to go and compile ver 0.8 of Android that dates back to 2006 that had the same Homescreen/App tray as modern Androids do, as well as the blackberry ish look.

That being said, at the end of the day Who gives a ****. Everything ever invented is a remix of what came before. (Watch this series if you havent)

After all we, the end user benefit when complex tasks look and work similar to something we used to (See Universal design). Look at cars, if everyone had their own steering mechanism we would have one hell of a problem switching models or driving other people's cars. And here is my problem with Windows new Modern UI drive, its so radically different that most people start with a mental block saying WTF is that before even starting to learn how it works.
 
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Only problem most of the seem to forget/ignore is that Android had 2 designs from the get go. Yes there was the old Blackberry look no argument there, but there was also the fullscreen version as seen in the second part of this vid:

[video=youtube;1FJHYqE0RDg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FJHYqE0RDg[/video]

More proof is to go and compile ver 0.8 of Android that dates back to 2006 that had the same Homescreen/App tray as modern Androids do, as well as the blackberry ish look.

That being said, at the end of the day Who gives a ****. Everything ever invented is a remix of what came before.

But, the question still remains: "Was Apple smoking crack?"

The judges don't think so.
 
But, the question still remains: "Was Apple smoking crack?"

The judges don't think so.

Which judges as they lost just as many as they won, and do not get me started on US patent law. The who was 1st in the US is not about who came out with the idea, and is more about who owns the patent.

Look at Edison vs Tesla and history to see how wrong that game can go.

Edit Sorry I meant Alexander Bell and the invention of the Telephone: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invention_of_the_telephone#Controversy
 
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Which judges as they lost just as many as they won, and do not get me started on US patent law. The who was 1st in the US is not about who came out with the idea, and is more about who owns the patent.

Look at Edison vs Tesla and history to see how wrong that game can go.

Edit Sorry I meant Alexander Bell and the invention of the Telephone: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invention_of_the_telephone#Controversy

Alright, point taken.

But, we digress.

The point is Nokia is releasing a new device today.

Whoo hooo!

And maybe a few more.
 
I'm not keen to get into yet another "Android copied iOS" spat. The courts & market will decide.

In the end, for the various players, the ultimate burning issue is: where does the margin lie, and how do we get some of it? Fortunately, the market still has many players, each playing in various circles/segments, and the circles overlap but are not coterminous.

What makes the devices space to interesting is it's a new layer on the various segments: hardware devices, operating systems, apps, networks, and ecosystems.

Apple uniquely plays in 3 of the 5 (OS, apps, ecosystems), and leverages that to great effect, and margin. They use a low-cost manufacturer in the Far East (Hon Hai Precision Industry Company), and do deals with networks, so the bulk of margin in those segments go there and not to Apple. They rake off margin from apps delivered exclusively through their ecosystem, and some services. The ecosystem is closed and promotes lock-in, which helps to stabilise revenue and margin curves. They have one brand, which encompasses all their segments.

Samsung is a handset manufacturer and is utterly agnostic about ecosystems, operating systems, apps, and networks. They go with what shifts volume, because they almost exclusively make their money off the manufacturing line. Tweaking Android is for them an expense and produces no margin. They can outmanufacture almost anyone else, and so will always win any margin war provided they're delivering passably in the network, OS, apps and ecosystems de jour. They also have one brand: Samsung, and it's tightly tied to the devices and not the OS, apps, networks, or ecosystem (which are variables for them).

Microsoft is historically an OS (and apps, sort of) maker and has taken its margin only there. Three of other segments (hardware, networks, and ecosystem) are traditionally beyond their reach (though strong historical relationships exist) and apps are largely unexploited and unmonetised on devices. They're trying to change that, by pushing into apps and ecosystem, and might even have to get into hardware (Surface is a harbinger?). The brand they're leveraging is Windows and Office, which are historically PC properties, with the device being mere delivery surface. They know that's not enough, because Apple has shown that much lies in getting the mix right.

Nokia were traditionally a player in hardware, OS, apps, and ecosystems, with strong network relationships. As the market changed they fiddled about with Open Symbian and other internal/proprietary/pseudo-open stuff. They got caught up in internal religious wars and defocused, and their traditional market (revenue and margin) nearly evaporated in the exploding smart/devices segment.

The challenge to Nokia is and will remain profound for a while yet.

With a First World cost-base, they could never outmanufacture the Far East chaebols and zaibatsus (like Samsung) and the emerging China-based megafactories. Nokia-owned mfg would be a margin toilet and certain suicide (though new tech like robot mfg can change it a decade or so). Trying to differentiate on handset quality alone simply dumps you back into the hardware manufacturing margin structure. Besides, Far East quality is already superb and always improving, and in any case all your competitors' stuff is made in the same/similar factories. The devices business needs margin and volume to survive beyond one ever-shorter technology generation. Nokia's fate with Android would in all probability be the same as HTC's (quality hardware, unfocused and unaligned OS/apps/ecosystem = ever-diminishing margin).

So how then to differentiate and survive? The only cards left for Nokia are:

- OS. Four options: (1) RYO. This had already failed. (2) Android. Doing the same as Samsung/others would remove the most immediate user-experience differentiation and thus over time come to nothing, with no realiseable leverage for margin. (3) RIM/Blackberry. For various reasons largely inside Blackberry, a non-starter with doubtful future. (4) Other outside OS. Many exist, but the only one with enough backing/resource and thus chance of some success over time is Microsoft's WP. It is new and faces its own problems, but MSFT are in the for the long haul and cannot afford to walk away from that space, so a tie-up with a committed OS alternative from MSFT makes the most long-term sense. Risky for sure, but all the other options are even riskier. And Android is a clear no-no for reasons outlined above.
- Networks. No chance, as the networks are and will always be device agnostic and other-brand antagonistic.
- Ecosystem and Apps. Nokia can leverage other existing properties like maps/navigation and music to quickly construct an ecosystem with the OS supplier, and develop apps that differentiate. Given Android's architecture, a Nokia+Android ecosystem would simply add the same value to the competition, so clearly an idiot move.

Like many people, I have always liked some Nokia devices. But cool devices alone aren't enough anymore. Like almost everyone else, my devices must talk to my daily business systems, which are largely Windows-based ~ Office, Exchange, cloud storage, messaging (the usual, plus Skype and Lync), sync contacts, calendars and other assorted stuff, and more and more cloud/SaaS stuff such as accounting, remote management and monitoring, security, etc. And they must delivery my leisure media.

In other words, the smarter they become, the more critical the off-board elements become, driving you into alignments and alliances shaped not only by the underlying technology (which becomes standardised and universalised over time) but by ecology and culture.

Ultimately, the Battle for the Universe is between Apple, Google, and Microsoft. The hot war now is between Apple and Google, with Microsoft still emerging from its slumbers and reorg. All three are empires, but they have different philosophies, laws, cultures, and customs. And different ecosystems. Oversimplified, of course: Apple is The Total Kingdom, closed, inert, imperialistic and deeply narcissistic. On a personal level, I find Apple's fanboi-pandering narcissism quite off-putting. But they make great stuff. Google is The New Kingdom, a rich twenty-something with a finger in every pie and an eye on everything you do, imperialistic, seductive, unsure of where it ends and the world begins, aiming to be all things to all people. Microsoft is The Olde Kingdom, once brash, super-aggressive, overweeningly ambitious and domineering, but now humbled. It's very focused on 2020, and has the resources to re-engineer the company and the tech until then. But I digress.

One of the interesting challenges for Nokia is: where will they actually make their money? Hardware manufacturing margins are super-slender and cannot sustain a Western cost base; networks are out; OS is a cost (largely), so that leaves only apps and ecosystem. How are they going to monetise the apps and ecosystem? Or do they plan to use the apps and ecosystem to drive device sales and make their money by selling their branded devices (with manufacturing outsourced a la Apple and Microsoft) in the higher-margin developed countries? What happens if/when Microsoft does phones (Surface is a toe in the water)? Merger/absorption? Or can it carve out a space under Microsoft's imperium and sally forth to conquer turf from the other two?

In the meantime, we get GREAT devices from all of them. I love that. I'd hate for there to ever be a clear winner. I'm a capitalist, after all. And a technology junky.
 
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:D. Nah. I need a new phone.

If you need a new phone, what are you doing in the Windows Phone thread? :wtf:

A new Windows Phone might be the best second hand phone you can buy, but if you need a new phone, you need to go to the Android thread. :)
 
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