Big things happening at Nokia...

McCrazieGoalz

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Alright, besides the fickle shareholders.

You've heard of the 'EOS', the 'Catwalk' and murmurs of a tablet...

I also heard they are planning on releasing the Nokia Max, which will have a 4.7" display and 512MB RAM.

Nokia-Lumia-Grand-Windows-Phone.jpg


Like Samsung (okay, so they are the boss - for now), Nokia is also going to be releasing this bigger Lumia to compete with Samsung's Galaxy Grand (a.k.a poor man's GS3/4).

The Max is said to be marketed as a Lumia 6xx variant indicating a lower middle market focus.

May 14 and 15 is going to be very interesting.

LINK
 
Stupid fickle investors, with their unrealistic demands of 'profitability' and 'market success' and 'results'.
 
Stupid fickle investors, with their unrealistic demands of 'profitability' and 'market success' and 'results'.

Yeah, must say its sad for a co that once traded at $60 per share (Now $3) keep on missing the targets for so long. Above example included.

Make big screen phone to compete with S3/S4 market but drop the specs so badly that half the apps on the market do not work, where is the logic in that?
 
Yeah, must say its sad for a co that once traded at $60 per share (Now $3) keep on missing the targets for so long. Above example included.

Make big screen phone to compete with S3/S4 market but drop the specs so badly that half the apps on the market do not work, where is the logic in that?

Guys stop missing the point.

The Lumia Max is not going to compete with the S3/4. It is going to compete with a Samsung Galaxy variant (Galaxy Grand), which also has lower specs, which was very successful in India.

If you check closely, you will see that the Lumia 620 (a.n.k.a Lumia 920 mini) is the S3mini's direct competitor. So, this rumor makes absolute sense. "A poor man's Lumia 920".

P.S. on 512MB all apps will work.
 
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Guys stop missing the point.

The Lumia Max is not going to compete with the S3/4. It is going to compete with a Samsung Galaxy variant (Galaxy Grand), which also has lower specs, which was very successful in India.

If you check closely, you will see that the Lumia 620 (a.n.k.a Lumia 920 mini) is the S3mini's direct competitor. So, this rumor makes absolute sense. "A poor man's Lumia 920".

Even then Samsung Grand or S3 mini do not have the same app limitations, all the apps that work on the bigger brother works on it.


P.S. on 512MB all apps will work.

PS I am a developer with Window phone apps on the market and maybe you haven't seen it yet but there is limitations with 512mb phones why else would you have http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windowsphone/develop/hh855081(v=vs.105).aspx

I can go look for some of them but not worth my time.
 
Guys stop missing the point.

The Lumia Max is not going to compete with the S3/4. It is going to compete with a Samsung Galaxy variant (Galaxy Grand), which also has lower specs, which was very successful in India.

If you check closely, you will see that the Lumia 620 (a.n.k.a Lumia 920 mini) is the S3mini's direct competitor. So, this rumor makes absolute sense. "A poor man's Lumia 920".

P.S. on 512MB all apps will work.

The point is Nokia's strategy is at best questionable. Everyone is waiting for the one megadevice and it never delivers. It wasn't the 800, or the 900, or the 920. 928 is just a better camera on the same phone. They brought out the best cameraphone on the market on a freaking Symbian phone, then never brought out their promised WP version despite confusingly branding the phones the same way. Right now the single most competitive Nokia phone is the 620, which means they're still smoking the low-price handset crack, but that evidently is being eroded from them quarter by quarter.
 
Why do these hardware guys always skimp out on ram. 1GB modules are dirt cheap nowadays.

I think it's more to do with power consumption than anything else. RAM requires constant power to keep the RAM module operational (it's not persistent storage after all). If you aren't using the full amount or RAM, the rest is just wasting battery. The more RAM you have, the more wasted power.

Bigger displays do the same... more power consumption, although they allow you to put in bigger batteries, which is part of the reason why I suspect they are pushing for larger displays after all.

Consumers want more and more hardware, then complain about the size and the operating time. I'm very glad I don't design smart phones. With the stuff they cram into smart phones these days, I'm amazed they can operate a full day (even on standby) on a single charge. What these companies achieve (all of them, Nokia, Samsumg, Apple included) is nothing short of epic.
 
I think it's more to do with power consumption than anything else. RAM requires constant power to keep the RAM module operational (it's not persistent storage after all). If you aren't using the full amount or RAM, the rest is just wasting battery. The more RAM you have, the more wasted power.

Bigger displays do the same... more power consumption, although they allow you to put in bigger batteries, which is part of the reason why I suspect they are pushing for larger displays after all.

Consumers want more and more hardware, then complain about the size and the operating time. I'm very glad I don't design smart phones. With the stuff they cram into smart phones these days, I'm amazed they can operate a full day (even on standby) on a single charge. What these companies achieve (all of them, Nokia, Samsumg, Apple included) is nothing short of epic.

Thanks for that clarification on RAM @shogun.

I always thought that even if the 1GB or more RAM is cheap, it would still translate to massive amounts of money considering they are aiming for huge volumes of even the so called cheap parts.

But, thats why I love MyBB. I'm no techie, but I know all the questions and answers are here.

Thanks again shogun for the clarification.
 
I think it's more to do with power consumption than anything else. RAM requires constant power to keep the RAM module operational (it's not persistent storage after all). If you aren't using the full amount or RAM, the rest is just wasting battery. The more RAM you have, the more wasted power.

Bigger displays do the same... more power consumption, although they allow you to put in bigger batteries, which is part of the reason why I suspect they are pushing for larger displays after all.

Consumers want more and more hardware, then complain about the size and the operating time. I'm very glad I don't design smart phones. With the stuff they cram into smart phones these days, I'm amazed they can operate a full day (even on standby) on a single charge. What these companies achieve (all of them, Nokia, Samsumg, Apple included) is nothing short of epic.

The ram part is total nonsense of course. It was true a few years back but these days skimping on ram is about cost savings, pure and simple.

The big screen argument is valid. Not just in battery life but in the size of SoCs, a bigger chassis gives more room to add in the highest end possible SoC and power and cool it adequately.
 
The ram part is total nonsense of course. It was true a few years back but these days skimping on ram is about cost savings, pure and simple.

Well yes and no. I agree that there is obviously a cost incentive to equip with less ram (and it must form part of the decision i'm sure). I did however say that if you are not using it though, that ram is a waste. Smartphones try not to waste it by caching loads into ram, thus loading from storage less frequently (which also wastes time and power).

My comment though:
"I think it's more to do with power consumption than anything else. RAM requires constant power to keep the RAM module operational (it's not persistent storage after all). If you aren't using the full amount or RAM, the rest is just wasting battery. The more RAM you have, the more wasted power." still stands. I'm referring to completely unused ram though... RAM used over and above caching, or RAM used when caching isn't.

I'm not singling out RAM as the main power drain on a phone (that's ludicrous). Other components far outdo it. We do need to put it in perspective though... you have this base level drain that you cannot stop. If your phone is on, x amount will be used all the time regardless of what the pone is doing. If you have more RAM, that base level increases.

Unless of course I missed the boat, and they've developed RAM that can turn off segments when not in use.
 
So battery capacities continue to be the bottleneck in smartphone development....

/waiting for the next big breakthrough re battery tech... going to happen soon, I just know it!!!
 
Unless of course I missed the boat, and they've developed RAM that can turn off segments when not in use.

No, they've had this thing called Moore's Law that brings power consumption down on ram to the point that it stops being a battery drain and manufacturers can add more and retain the same battery life.
 
At least point to your sources that RAM size is based on power consumption. Casue from what I been reading, the latest RAM has varuable power and consume less when not in use.

Also see Point 5 in http://static.usenix.org/event/usenix10/tech/full_papers/Carroll.pdf

5.1 Where does the energy go?

Our results show that the majority of power consumption can be attributed to the GSM module and the display, including the LCD panel and touchscreen, the graphics accelerator/driver, and the backlight. In all except the GSM-intensive benchmarks, the brightness of the backlight is the most critical factor in determining power consumption. However, this is a relatively simple device from a power-management perspective, and largely depends on the user’s brightness preference. Our results confirm that aggressive backlight dimming can save a great deal of energy, and further motivates the inclusion of ambient light and proximity sensors in mobile devices to assist with selecting an appropriate brightness. Moreover, the N1 OLED results show that merely selecting a light-on-dark colour scheme can
significantly reduce energy consumption.

The GSM module consumes a great deal of both static and dynamic power. Merely maintaining a connection with the network consumes a significant fraction of total power. During a phone call, GSM consumes in excess of 800 mW average, which represents the single largest power drain in any of our benchmarks. Unfortunately, a phone-call-heavy workload presents little scope for software-level power management. Dimming the backlight during a call, as Android does, is clearly good policy, saving up to 40 % power even with the large GSM consumption.

Overall, the static contribution to system power consumption is substantial. In all of our usage scenarios, except GSM phone call, static power accounts for at least 50 % of the total. If the backlight is included, this figOLED Power (mW)

Benchmark Min. Max.
Idle 38.0 257.3
Phone call 16.7 112.9
Web 164.2 1111.7
Video 15.1 102.0
Table 10: Additional power consumed by the N1 OLED display at maximum and minimum brightness.
ure rises substantially. This leads us to the conclusion that the most effective power management approach on mobile devices is to shut down unused components and disable their power supplies (where possible). The RAM, audio and flash subsystems consistently showed the lowest power consumption. While our micro-benchmarks showed that the peak power of the SD card could be substantial ( 50 mW), in practice the utilisation is low enough such that on average, negligible power is consumed. Even video playback, one of the more data-intensive uses of mobile devices, showed SD power well under 1 % of total power. RAM has similar characteristics; micro-benchmarks showed that RAM power can exceed CPU power in certain workloads, but in practical situations, CPU power overshadows RAM by
a factor of two or more. Audio displayed a largely static power consumption in the range of 28–34 mW. Overall, RAM, audio and SD have little effect on the power consumption of the device, and therefore offer little potential for energy optimisation.

More on the subject can be found in http://www.eetasia.com/ARTICLES/2006MAR/PDF/EEOL_2006MAR01_RFD_STOR_TA.pdf
 
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At least point to your sources that RAM size is based on power consumption. Casue from what I been reading, the latest RAM has varuable power and consume less when not in use.

Also see Point 5 in http://static.usenix.org/event/usenix10/tech/full_papers/Carroll.pdf



More on the subject can be found in http://www.eetasia.com/ARTICLES/2006MAR/PDF/EEOL_2006MAR01_RFD_STOR_TA.pdf

Well admittedly my comments were based on personal experience with electronics development I've been involved in. And that hasn't involved the latest stuff the smartphone guys are dealing with. So i'm not claiming to be an expert on smartphone ram, I was just sharing an (perhaps out of date) opinion. The general theory does apply though, but yeah, they're obviously getting the power usage lower.

I suppose my comment should have been "all things equal, more ram would lead to more power consumption".

I'm curious though about the ram that has variable power you mention. Keen to check it out. Links?
 
I'm curious though about the ram that has variable power you mention. Keen to check it out. Links?

I do not have all the documents at hand, must be on my Home PC but just look into JEDEC with the new LPDDR standards. I am sure you will find what you looking for, if not pm me and I will see if I can track down em PDF's again.

PS: its not so much variable power as they all use 1.8 V its the mH usages that drops/increase depending on use.
 
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Look, there's a very simple solid reason that Nokia is doing this: they still have an enormous amount of sales at the lower end of the market. In fact their low end handsets are currently arguably more compelling than their high end ones.
 
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