Boks vs NZ

[killadoob]

Lance you guys do seem bias though, i do not support the bulls or sharks and care not what province a springbok players comes from. You keep harping on one mistake by morne but the rest of the half we defended like demons, one little slip up and you are acting like he is the only person to have ever missed a tackle in tri nations.

The fact that morne is so accurate with difficult kicks is a huge plus for us and how you cannot see that is beyond me. You said we should work on pienaar's kicking, why not work on morne's tackling if say there is such a huge problem. This is where your bias seems to come through.

Anyways it does not matter what we think, the coach will choose the team and i hope to see morne getting a run in the team like pienaar always gets.

 

[Zyzzyva]

This has become a bit of a tough dilemma. If Ruan can be taught to kick isn't really the issue. The bigger issue is can we develop him into a kicker right now?

His problem is that he is a rookie kicker, and naturally when he misses in games he suffers the expected confidence knock. This i would consider only natural for a rookie kicker.

Expecting him to learn his craft in this environment is perhaps a little unfair. Lets remember he wasn't given a super 14 to hone is craft, and is now being expected to kick at 75-80% with practically no game time having done it. All that considered, hoping he finds the poles during a few big games, and thus becomes the better for it (possibly the current thinking), is foolish when you don't give him a super 14 to build up some experience. Given time he could turn into a Percy, he did actually hit the poles , but i don't think the heat of a trinations is the time to do it.

Morne has been first choice kicker for the bulls for quite some time now, and has developed a near flawless kicking game atleast in part due to his game time in the position. Ascribing his accent purely to talent would be a little off, he has had some practice time which Ruan hasn’t had. It's also true Morne has incredible kicking talent which Ruan possibly doesn't have. But we can’t be sure just yet.

But now the question of Big Steyn. I've been thinking for years that if he can pull off a 60m kick then surely he has the ability to become a great place kicker from any distance. Steyn seems to be the one player who is almost guaranteed a place in the team, and so why not start training him up into the position (e.g. super 14).

Morne may need to develop a bit more playmaking ability and so isnt exactly a sure bet to unseat Ruan. But atleast with Ruan getting injured, we may now get to see what Morne can do with a full strength team. What happened in the final Lions game proved nothing as he was playing with a bunch of palookas.

 

[killadoob]

Exactly but you have people for some reason who support a player because he comes from the sharks and don't want a bulls player in the team and honestly i think SA should have the best man for the job and not a shark or bulls player. Give morne a chance FFS.

 

[Mephisto_Helix]

It's never been about Ruan being a Sharks player, it's about the kind of player I want to see / who best fits the Number 10 role ........ same story if they decided Johann Muller should start ahead of Bakkies - I'd post all over the show what a dumb idea it is not to start Bakkies or if they decided to play Nokwe instead of Habana, etc. I would give the same 100% support to Ruan if he was playing for any other province ...... it's him being in the same league as a Larkham/Honiball that has me supporting him.

 

[killadoob]

Why do the bulls do so well then if morne is so poor meph?

Makes no sense too me.

COME PVD GIVE MORNE A CHANCE!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mephisto_Helix]

It's the same with a lot of players, they excel at CC and Super 14 and then blunder when they get chosen for Springbok duty because they are rushed into the team. Look at blonde-mop and carstens and twatson and a whole host of others for evidence.


Fact is that for now, Ruans kicking game is weak and Morne's defensive game is weak ..... let both of them carry on building up game by game ffs.

 

[killadoob]

Twatson threw his career away by bringing politics and race into the game.

Saying you want too puke on the jersey is not going to help your case , twatson should be forgotten and should never be talked about in regards to the springboks. Anyways i cannot wait for next week!!!!!!!!

 

[Mephisto_Helix]

Yeah, let's do the next week looking-forward-to thing

I'm expecting a moerse backlash from the AB's so we have to make sure that this week is all about making sure the guys know to up the intensity to meet it with or the AB's are gonna walk over us.

 

[Zyzzyva]

Why do the bulls do so well then if morne is so poor meph?

Makes no sense too me.

COME PVD GIVE MORNE A CHANCE!!!!!!!!!!!

The main problem is P Div has shown to not like structure in his games. The bulls on the other hand are all about structure.

Morne is a predictable player, and thats a good thing when you play within a predictable structure. Ruan on the hand seems more creative in an unstable platform which is what we have seen most of the time under P Div.

What pleased me the most about last nights win was it had so much structure and poise. Jaque Fourie seems to organize the backline defense well, and the boys are hitting the rucks with intelligence and purpose.

Morne is currently a better flyhalf in a structured game, when factoring in his place kicking ability. But when things break up and get unpredictable, for me Ruan has been doing quite a good job under the circumstances he has been placed in.

But with all that said its up to both players to prove us wrong. Neither player has to continue with their weaknesses, and can both get better at their respective failings. Its really up to them. We must remember they are not robots.

 

[Zyzzyva]

Yeah, let's do the next week looking-forward-to thing

I'm expecting a moerse backlash from the AB's so we have to make sure that this week is all about making sure the guys know to up the intensity to meet it with or the AB's are gonna walk over us.

Lets look at it from the Blacks perspective for a change.

To be relatively assured of a win "based only on what we done" they only need to do three things.

1. Attack the rucks much harder (which is easy).

2. Hold onto the ball more, giving their attacking phases the time needed to break through our defense. When they got enough phases together they broke through our defense quite easily. What saved us was we gave them such little ball.

3. Improve discipline. We got to many opportunities to kick at the poles.

 

[LancelotSA]

Twatson threw his career away by bringing politics and race into the game.

Saying you want too puke on the jersey is not going to help your case , twatson should be forgotten and should never be talked about in regards to the springboks. Anyways i cannot wait for next week!!!!!!!!

FSK! You tell us we are blinded by our patriotism and even when MH gives you a valid reason you still come back with this crap! Morne was not even on the radar until he had a good end to the Super 14 and now all of a sudden he must immediately get put into starting lineup at the expense of others who have toiled away. Do you know what that sort of thing does for team morale? Especially when Ruan has not done much wrong! Yes, he has missed a kick or two but so has any kicker and as pointed out he didn't exactly hit the corner flag with each kick... two came off the upright!

You are the same person who probably bitches about the cheapening of the jersey when every man and his dog gets given a springbok cap but here you are calling for a man, who is already being given a chance to play off the bench, to hope straight into he number 1 position! Ruan oozes far more talent that Morne no matter how you try to spin it! Yes, the Bulls may win with him but if you took the time to read all the posts in this thread you will see that we have already covered the fact that the Boks are not the Bulls and test rugby is not Super 14!

 

[LancelotSA]

Lance you guys do seem bias though, i do not support the bulls or sharks and care not what province a springbok players comes from. You keep harping on one mistake by morne but the rest of the half we defended like demons, one little slip up and you are acting like he is the only person to have ever missed a tackle in tri nations

It appears I may not be alone in my thinking! Of course why would you believe little old me who apparently knows nothing about rugby, so here is a review by those who know the game and get paid to write about it!

21 Morné Steyn: (on for Pienaar after halftime)
Kicked superbly as expected, landing a fantastic penalty to seal the game. But, his defence was awful and it was his missed tackle that let Smith free to score. The backline lost direction with him at flyhalf in the second half. A great match clincher though. 6/10

I REST MY CASE!

And in case you were wondering what was said about Ruan, it was again pretty much what we have been saying... his kicking was the only criticism!

10 Ruan Pienaar:
He certainly didn't settle the flyhalf debate with a performance that showed both what he offers and lacks in the pivotal position. His tactical kicking was good and he distributed well but his goalkicking was wayward, which could have cost his team dearly. Such a pity, as his general play was impressive. 6.5/10

So pretty much according to that if he sorts his kicking out he would be a far better bet!! And all that is required, as someone pointed out, is time kicking in match situations!

Source : Rugby365

 

[killadoob]

Lance = massive drama queen, stop flapping those arms for one second man.

I never said replace pienaar i said let both men prove to us who is the better option by giving them the same chance to prove it, thus far we have not given morne a chance to prove his worth and continue too play pienaar and continue letting him kick when it is obvious he has missed far more than the couple of kicks you say he has missed.

I do not care which one plays but they have to stop letting him kick for the moment until he regains his confidence because they are ruining pienaar at the moment, he has no kicking confidence and without confidence you are going to struggle. We have a great kicker in francious so let him do the kicking if pienaar plays for the moment.

Also why are you so defensive? meph never got defensive when i said you guys seemed bias, you fly off the deep end hahaha, something you are not telling us lance? You also never told me why we should work on pienaars game and not morne's game? Although you will freak out now because your obviously biased, meph seems logical you just seem like you support your sharkie no matter what

 

[LancelotSA]

Saturday 25 July
Ruan Pienaar 40 minutes of test rugby against the All Blacks
Morne Steyn 40 minutes of test rugby against the All Blacks

Oh, I understand Morne needs more and more and more chances.... is he a white mechanic by any chance?

Everything has been said... you unfortunately appear to only read the first three words of each post. It may be a concentration issue. Look through this again and focus specifically on natural flair and game breaking ability versus kicking skill.

Please contact Rugby365 here and let them know that they are clearly sharks fans who are showing an irrational bias against Morne, as they appear to have seen the game the same way as me!


EDIT : By the way, nice deflection from the subject at hand there by conveniently ignoring those player ratings and instead focussing on me!

 

[killadoob]

Well whatever pvd decides i sure hope francious will be our kicker if ruan plays.

 

[rwenzori]

And in case you were wondering what was said about Ruan, it was again pretty much what we have been saying... his kicking was the only criticism!

Well, in most test matches you just can't afford to piss away 9 or 11 or 14 points, can you? If you do so, you usually lose. Pienaar has done pretty well, for a retreaded scrumhalf, anyway. But he seems to have lost his kicking BMT, and the Boks can't afford the wastage of points.

Morne Steyn ain't too bad. He follows the tradition of Northerns/Bulls great kickers who are dodgy defenders - think of Naas LOL! His kicking is more reliable than his namesake Moptop Steyn anyway.

 

[Kabraal]

Oh, I understand Morne needs more and more and more chances.... is he a white mechanic by any chance?!

Lol? I thought Steyn has had a fairy decend entry into intl rugby. Dunno why you'd compare him to the "white mechanic saga" :/

Dunno why you're all bitching about this though. Both Pienaar and Steyn runs onto the field in the 22 if we watched the same games. Both made POSITVE impacts of the BI Lions tour.

 

[elL0L]

It's the same with a lot of players, they excel at CC and Super 14 and then blunder when they get chosen for Springbok duty because they are rushed into the team. Look at blonde-mop and carstens and twatson and a whole host of others for evidence.


Fact is that for now, Ruans kicking game is weak and Morne's defensive game is weak ..... let both of them carry on building up game by game ffs.

Morne Steyn missed one tackle and that wasn't even his man. That isn't an excuse, but you can't state he has a weak defensive game. What about the try he saved in his 1st test against the BL?

 

[Zenbaas]

Morne Steyn missed one tackle and that wasn't even his man. That isn't an excuse, but you can't state he has a weak defensive game. What about the try he saved in his 1st test against the BL?

If the guy is in front of you with the ball then its your man irrespective I also noticed quite a few other players that used a similar tackling technique to steyn (ie. go in quite high when tackling and get b!tchslapped away by the opposition). Don't know why but I noticed a few of our players who were employing this "technique"....

 

[killadoob]

Morne Steyn missed one tackle and that wasn't even his man. That isn't an excuse, but you can't state he has a weak defensive game. What about the try he saved in his 1st test against the BL?

No no the pienaar supporters won't find anything about morne's game worthy of complimenting, they will harp on every mistake he makes. I bet the when he missed the one kick, all the okes where like yes missed it must be a bad kicker.

Morne when he walks up and kicks you know is going to get it 90% f times if the condition are not very windy, at the moment you cannot even get ruan kicking easy ones which is a huge worry. Thhose extra 11 point can be the different between winning and losing and we do not know many more he may have missed.

When he is no confident you just know this ball sailing wide.