Breaking news - firearm act

Here is a perfect example of why castle doctrine is flawed.
Get someone to translate if you don't understand it:

http://jv.news24.com/Beeld/Suid-Afrika/0,,3-975_2535119,00.html

The translated headline reads "Scared resident shoots 11-year old"
It is about the owner of a castle in Parkmore Johannesburg, who mistook the 11 year old son of his maid for a burglar, and killed him with his hunting rifle. Or did he "neutralise" him?

He is in jail and is being charged with murder.

Read the article to get the whole picture.

http://www.thetimes.co.za/News/Article.aspx?id=1027183
English article
 
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plazma said:
Here is a perfect example of why castle doctrine is flawed.
Get someone to translate if you don't understand it:

http://jv.news24.com/Beeld/Suid-Afrika/0,,3-975_2535119,00.html

The translated headline reads "Scared resident shoots 11-year old"
It is about the owner of a castle in Parkmore Johannesburg, who mistook the 11 year old son of his maid for a burglar, and killed him with his hunting rifle. Or did he "neutralise" him?

He is in jail and is being charged with murder.

Read the article to get the whole picture.

http://www.thetimes.co.za/News/Article.aspx?id=1027183
English article
Click to expand...
So you're suggesting that everything must change just because of one unfortunate incident/accident ?
The person is charged with murder - not convicted - he will be given the opportunity to prove it was an accident.

There's far more killed in their homes by intruders, and the public have all the right to protect themselves against this.
 
plazma said:
Here is a perfect example of why castle doctrine is flawed.
Get someone to translate if you don't understand it:

http://jv.news24.com/Beeld/Suid-Afrika/0,,3-975_2535119,00.html

The translated headline reads "Scared resident shoots 11-year old"
It is about the owner of a castle in Parkmore Johannesburg, who mistook the 11 year old son of his maid for a burglar, and killed him with his hunting rifle. Or did he "neutralise" him?

He is in jail and is being charged with murder.

Read the article to get the whole picture.

http://www.thetimes.co.za/News/Article.aspx?id=1027183
English article
Click to expand...

I don't agree.

If we had the Castle doctorine here then there wouldn't be people walking around on your "Castle" this owner would not have been so trigger happy and this would have been avoided.

Just my view ofc.
 
plazma said:
Here is a perfect example of why castle doctrine is flawed.
Get someone to translate if you don't understand it:

http://jv.news24.com/Beeld/Suid-Afrika/0,,3-975_2535119,00.html

The translated headline reads "Scared resident shoots 11-year old"
It is about the owner of a castle in Parkmore Johannesburg, who mistook the 11 year old son of his maid for a burglar, and killed him with his hunting rifle. Or did he "neutralise" him?

He is in jail and is being charged with murder.

Read the article to get the whole picture.

http://www.thetimes.co.za/News/Article.aspx?id=1027183
English article
Click to expand...

In the interests of protecting an innocent person from dying once in a blue moon thousands of innocent home owners must succumb to rape, torture, assault and murder. Doesn't make sense to me
 
plazma said:
Here is a perfect example of why castle doctrine is flawed.
Get someone to translate if you don't understand it:

http://jv.news24.com/Beeld/Suid-Afrika/0,,3-975_2535119,00.html

The translated headline reads "Scared resident shoots 11-year old"
It is about the owner of a castle in Parkmore Johannesburg, who mistook the 11 year old son of his maid for a burglar, and killed him with his hunting rifle. Or did he "neutralise" him?

He is in jail and is being charged with murder.

Read the article to get the whole picture.

http://www.thetimes.co.za/News/Article.aspx?id=1027183
English article
Click to expand...
Well if our brain dead gvt did not make it so easy for criminals to rape, murder , attack then we would not have to draw our firearms every time we heard a noise.
We live in fear, we hear a noise what must we do?
This is the fault of the lax attitude of this gvt.
 
bwana said:
Yes - google Castle Doctrine.

This isnt misplaced bravado. Come into my house - threaten my life of the lives of my kids and the only 'skeef' looking you'll be doing is through lifeless eyes. It's really not that complicated. The invader is responsible for their own actions.
Click to expand...
+1000000000000
 
Are you serious? An 11-year old kid, visiting his grandma, is "the invader" and "is responsible for his actions", and hence can be shot dead with a hunting rifle?

Don't you think the Lord of the Castle should have looked to see what he was shooting, before he pulled the trigger??

What would you say if he had shot YOUR child?

Once in a blue moon? Not in South Africa, dude. We are a nation of bloodthirsrty, trigger-happy killers - we have the highest murder rate (WITH FIREARMS) in the world, FFS! Look here:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms
 
plazma said:
Are you serious? An 11-year old kid, visiting his grandma, is "the invader" and "is responsible for his actions", and hence can be shot dead with a hunting rifle?

Don't you think the Lord of the Castle should have looked to see what he was shooting, before he pulled the trigger??

What would you say if he had shot YOUR child?

Once in a blue moon? Not in South Africa, dude. We are a nation of bloodthirsrty, trigger-happy killers - we have the highest murder rate (WITH FIREARMS) in the world, FFS! Look here:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms
Click to expand...
You dont get it, I am not talking about the kid, the fact of the matter is the citizens of this country live in fear.
Why should one need to react in such a way when hearing a noise outside?

You think this guy intentionally killed this kid? :rolleyes:
We shouldnt need guns but wakey wakey, this is South Africa and we need them.
This guy will have to live with the fact that he killed an innocent child but this is not the first and wont be the last due to the inability of Thabo Mbeki's administration to protect this country from crime.

"Lord of the castle" - now I know where you stand on this ;)
 
plazma said:
Are you serious? An 11-year old kid, visiting his grandma, is "the invader" and "is responsible for his actions", and hence can be shot dead with a hunting rifle?

Don't you think the Lord of the Castle should have looked to see what he was shooting, before he pulled the trigger??

What would you say if he had shot YOUR child?

Once in a blue moon? Not in South Africa, dude. We are a nation of bloodthirsrty, trigger-happy killers - we have the highest murder rate (WITH FIREARMS) in the world, FFS! Look here:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms
Click to expand...

Don't you think there's a little flaw in your argument? The vast majority of South Africans aren't criminals. You have the highest murder rate in the world and you are wanting people not to protect themselves, seriously? You are either an ANC lackey, a criminal, or very liberal.

I agree it's a shame the kid got shot, but accidents happen, and unfortunately in S.A. those accidents normally end in death. Tis the nature of the beast.
 
plazma said:
Are you serious? An 11-year old kid, visiting his grandma, is "the invader" and "is responsible for his actions", and hence can be shot dead with a hunting rifle?

Don't you think the Lord of the Castle should have looked to see what he was shooting, before he pulled the trigger??

What would you say if he had shot YOUR child?
Click to expand...

I'm still waiting for you to explain how'd you determine if a burglar is a threat to you or not?


Once in a blue moon? Not in South Africa, dude. We are a nation of bloodthirsrty, trigger-happy killers - we have the highest murder rate (WITH FIREARMS) in the world, FFS! Look here:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms
Click to expand...

Sorry I don't see any mention of people shot dead while tresspassing in that link.

Since we're "a nation of bloodthirsty, trigger-happy killers" all the more reason to shoot intruders into your home
 
marine1 said:
I dont know if I agree with that. We are a violent society,
Not only violent crime but all crime.
White collar as well.
We know we will get off so we do it.
Click to expand...

I was speaking in the context of blood thirsty, trigger happy murderers :D

I'm giving you lot the benefit of the doubt here :D
 
RetroBok said:
Don't you think there's a little flaw in your argument? The vast majority of South Africans aren't criminals. You have the highest murder rate in the world and you are wanting people not to protect themselves, seriously? You are either an ANC lackey, a criminal, or very liberal.

I agree it's a shame the kid got shot, but accidents happen, and unfortunately in S.A. those accidents normally end in death. Tis the nature of the beast.
Click to expand...

I am a middle-aged white person who has been packing a gat for 30 years. I work in law enforcement. I am not liberal. Up yours for calling me those things.

The death of this kid was NOT an accident!! It was murder, due to bizarre, inexplicable, idiotic NEGLIGENCE. It would be punished by ANY court in any country in the world. And that is why we can never give anyone carte-blanche to pull a trigger.

And by the way, where are all these trembling lilies who quiver in fear all day? I know a lot of people, and I've never met one.
 
plazma said:
I am a middle-aged white person who has been packing a gat for 30 years. I work in law enforcement. I am not liberal. Up yours for calling me those things.
Click to expand...
Dude you're calling for the disarmament of the honest decent person on the the street. If you're in law enforcement you should be happy some of these people have guns, they make your job easier... Law enforcement huh? Does that mean you work for SAPS? If not then I'm guessing it's private law enforcement. Which is it?
 
plazma said:
I am a middle-aged white person who has been packing a gat for 30 years. I work in law enforcement. I am not liberal. Up yours for calling me those things.
Click to expand...
I seriously doubt that, maybe reservist then?
plazma said:
The death of this kid was NOT an accident!! It was murder, due to bizarre, inexplicable, idiotic NEGLIGENCE. It would be punished by ANY court in any country in the world. And that is why we can never give anyone carte-blanche to pull a trigger.
Click to expand...
So you were there? If you are in law enforcement then you should know the difference between negligence and murder, murder has to have intent.
How can it be proved he INTENDED to kill him? What was the distance? Did he aim for his head? I dont know how you can have the outcome of the investigation already.

plazma said:
And by the way, where are all these trembling lilies who quiver in fear all day? I know a lot of people, and I've never met one.
Click to expand...
So at night, you hear a noise, what do you do? Go back to sleep? Come on man get real.
 
plazma said:
Are you serious? An 11-year old kid, visiting his grandma, is "the invader" and "is responsible for his actions", and hence can be shot dead with a hunting rifle?

Don't you think the Lord of the Castle should have looked to see what he was shooting, before he pulled the trigger??

What would you say if he had shot YOUR child?

Once in a blue moon? Not in South Africa, dude. We are a nation of bloodthirsrty, trigger-happy killers - we have the highest murder rate (WITH FIREARMS) in the world, FFS! Look here:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms
Click to expand...
Whilst I think this guy did the wrong thing, he isn't entirely to blame.

The police have a very long and dreadful history of failing to protect us from violent criminals. The police also do things like this. The difference is that their mistakes get covered up. The police should be subject the same law, despite their advanced training, but they are not.

You can't take one incident and use it as an example to disarm civilians. If we did things that way, we wouldn't have a police force.
 
Yes, and you would agree there is a huge difference between a tactical situation, and an 11-year-old in the back yard.

What could possibly be an extenuating circumstance for this guy blowing away a child, in the YARD, not the HOUSE, while visiting his granny? How do you think black people feell about this baas shooting the child in the yard of the madam? Do you think this incident is good for South Africa? How do you think the lawmakers and the courts will respond to it?

Are you guys not amazed at how willing some forumites are to condone the slaughter of a child here?

I FULLY support the governement in taking away weapons from some of the crazies in this forum.

Shame on you all.
 
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