Broadband prices compared

I see that there is a heated debate regarding the article and even suggestions that we favour Vodacom. The stats are rather easy to defend and I can personally not see a better way to describe value for money than cost/Mbps/GB. In an uncapped environment the standard measurement is cost/Mbps (standard usage by OECD, ITU etc), but in a capped environment one must bring in usage as well.

To the critics out there:

--What system should we use that is more accurate?
--Can you please give a basic comparison as to what you think is a better way to compare services (please give a single table with comparative services from best to worst)

This may be a good start for a constructive discussion.

BTW: Before you make statements like ‘one should not compare services on speed/price/usage’, think whether it is ever justified to criticize any provider on any service. If it is, why is it the case and what measurement/argument did you use to criticize that provider?
 
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rpm said:
I see that there is a heated debate regarding the article and even suggestions that we favour Vodacom. The stats are rather easy to defend and I can personally not see a better way to describe value for money than cost/Mbps/GB. In an uncapped environment the standard measurement is cost/Mbps (standard usage by OECD, ITU etc), but in a capped environment one must bring in usage as well.

To the critics out there:

--What system should we use that is more accurate?
Click to expand...

Cost/Mbps is absolutely valid in an uncapped environment. But in a capped environment the relative benefit of speed is greatly reduced. Cost/Mbps/GB ignores this fact completely. It does not reduce the benefit of speed, and is not appropriate whatsoever. Apart from which, dividing by GB makes no sense as any measurement devised for capped services should also be consistent in measuring uncapped services.

I proposed an algorithm to solve this issue last year in response to complaints over a similar article:
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showpost.php?p=1164920&postcount=23
 
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It should be noted that Neotel’s recently launched consumer offerings were not included in this comparison as they do not have basic data-only offerings.
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Actually, neither does Telkom... I am forced to pay for a land-line I don't use just so I can enjoy the privilege of having ADSL. Apparently, just because Telkom don't know how to bill me for services without a landline number. So maybe it would be fair to add R125 to the cost of ADSL and then work out the cost...

Juice
 
Gatecrasher said:
Cost/Mbps is absolutely valid in an uncapped environment. But in a capped environment the relative benefit of speed is greatly reduced. Cost/Mbps/GB ignores this fact completely. It does not reduce the benefit of speed, and is not appropriate whatsoever. Apart from which, dividing by GB makes no sense as any measurement devised for capped services should also be consistent in measuring uncapped services.

I proposed an algorithm to solve this issue last year in response to complaints over a similar article:
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showpost.php?p=1164920&postcount=23
Click to expand...

If you remove both speed and cap from the value, you're just left with the cost. Irrespective if it's a 10M or a 10G package. Running at 64kb/s or 2Mb/s.

So all you'll publish is a price list with no comparative value.

On the speed issue, what is your personal access speed at the moment?

And would you be happy if it's dropped by, say a factor 100? (Since you're in a capped environment and the effect of speed is 'greatly reduced').
 
Gatecrasher said:
Cost/Mbps is absolutely valid in an uncapped environment. But in a capped environment the relative benefit of speed is greatly reduced. Cost/Mbps/GB ignores this fact completely. It does not reduce the benefit of speed, and is not appropriate whatsoever. Apart from which, dividing by GB makes no sense as any measurement devised for capped services should also be consistent in measuring uncapped services.

I proposed an algorithm to solve this issue last year in response to complaints over a similar article:
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showpost.php?p=1164920&postcount=23
Click to expand...
Hi Gatecrasher

This is a good argument and it will be interesting to analyze services in this way. How will cost be factored into the equation though? One must obviously be careful not to penalize providers for higher speed services at the same price…
 
vodacom3g said:
If you remove both speed and cap from the value, you're just left with the cost. Irrespective if it's a 10M or a 10G package. Running at 64kb/s or 2Mb/s.

So all you'll publish is a price list with no comparative value.
Click to expand...

Speed and Cap are both intrinsic parts of the algorithm. They should both be considered.

On the speed issue, what is your personal access speed at the moment?
Click to expand...

4Mbps

And would you be happy if it's dropped by, say a factor 100? (Since you're in a capped environment and the effect of speed is 'greatly reduced').
Click to expand...

I would not be happy at all, because I average +-100Gb/Month. Any reduction in speed would have a large impact on me.

However, if I was bound by a 3GB cap, speed would be much less of an issue, and I might well prefer 384k access speed, saving myself some cash each month.
 
rpm said:
Hi Gatecrasher

This is a good argument and it will be interesting to analyze services in this way. How will cost be factored into the equation though? One must obviously be careful not to penalize providers for higher speed services at the same price…
Click to expand...

Since speed is an input into the Benefit number, the Cost/Benefit ratio of the fastest service offered at the same price will get the lowest (ie best) score.
 
Gatecrasher said:
Since speed is an input into the Benefit number, the Cost/Benefit ratio of the fastest service offered at the same price will get the lowest (ie best) score.
Click to expand...
This is all a bit over my head ATM, when you have a moment, please can you give an example of both methods side-by-side so we [or just me :o] can see what the difference is between the two methods applied to the same set of data & compared side-by-side.
 
If all the VC 3G towers are running at at least 3.6Mbps, then why can't I get faster than 1Mbps where I stay? That's when the software displays HSDPA, if I'm really lucky it picks up what it says is 3G, then it runs slower than a Cell C gprs connection. Oh well the E220 dropped on the floor the other day and VC says they can't fix it. In the bin :(
 
Toilet_Duck said:
If all the VC 3G towers are running at at least 3.6Mbps, then why can't I get faster than 1Mbps where I stay? That's when the software displays HSDPA, if I'm really lucky it picks up what it says is 3G, then it runs slower than a Cell C gprs connection. Oh well the E220 dropped on the floor the other day and VC says they can't fix it. In the bin :(
Click to expand...
It sounds like you have not subscribed to HSDPA 3.6 which costs ZAR49/month and includes HSUPA 1.8 AFAIK, otherwise speed is limited to HSDPA 1.8 and 384kbits/s uplink.
 
ic said:
This is all a bit over my head ATM, when you have a moment, please can you give an example of both methods side-by-side so we [or just me :o] can see what the difference is between the two methods applied to the same set of data & compared side-by-side.
Click to expand...

Assumption 1: The raw data is correct,
Assumption 2: Not addressing the basic flaws in the services/caps that have been included in the study,
Assumption 3: That you can reliably achieve the speeds
Assumption 4: That the average uncapped Joe would use each service 1 hour at full speed per day (This is used to produce Max uncapped GB).

Code: 
Provider	Cap	Speed	Cost	Max	Benefit	Cost/Benefit	Cost/Mbps/GB

iBurst  	0.5	1	149	13.18	 0.4905 	 303.76 	298.00
MTN HSDPA	0.5	1.8	189	23.73	 0.4947 	 382.02 	210.00
MyWireless	0.5	1	199	13.18	 0.4905 	 405.69 	398.00
Vodacom HSDPA	0.5	3.6	238	47.46	 0.4974 	 478.52 	132.22
							
iBurst  	1	1	199	13.18	 0.9621 	 206.84 	199.00
MTN HSDPA	1	1.8	289	23.73	 0.9789 	 295.22 	160.56
MyWireless	1	1	299	13.18	 0.9621 	 310.79 	299.00
Vodacom HSDPA	1	3.6	338	47.46	 0.9895 	 341.60 	93.89
Telkom WiMax	1	0.5	319	6.59	 0.9241 	 345.18 	638.00
Telkom DSL 384	1	0.375	323.2	4.94	 0.8989 	 359.56 	861.87
							
MTN HSDPA	2	1.8	389	23.73	 1.9157 	 203.06 	108.06
Vodacom HSDPA	2	3.6	438	47.46	 1.9579 	 223.71 	60.83
Telkom WiMax	2	0.5	389	6.59	 1.6966 	 229.28 	389.00
Telkom DSL 384	2	0.375	382.2	4.94	 1.5955 	 239.56 	509.60
MyWireless	2	1	449	13.18	 1.8483 	 242.93 	224.50
							
iBurst  	3	1	449	13.18	 2.6587 	 168.88 	149.67
Telkom WiMax	3	0.5	479	6.59	 2.3173 	 206.70 	319.33
Vodacom HSDPA	3	3.6	638	47.46	 2.9052 	 219.61 	59.07
Telkom DSL 4Mb	3	4	678.2	52.73	 2.9147 	 232.69 	56.52

NB: I would much rather see achievable speeds used than the advertised speeds. Reducing the 1 hour per day input would increase the importance of speed. One could argue for a lower amount.
 
Gatecrasher said:
Assumption 1: The raw data is correct,
Assumption 2: Not addressing the basic flaws in the services/caps that have been included in the study,
Assumption 3: That you can reliably achieve the speeds
Assumption 4: That the average uncapped Joe would use each service 1 hour at full speed per day (This is used to produce Max uncapped GB).
Code: 
Provider	Cap	Speed	Cost	Max	Benefit	Cost/Benefit	Cost/Mbps/GB

iBurst  	0.5	1	149	13.18	 0.4905 	 303.76 	298.00
MTN HSDPA	0.5	1.8	189	23.73	 0.4947 	 382.02 	210.00
MyWireless	0.5	1	199	13.18	 0.4905 	 405.69 	398.00
Vodacom HSDPA	0.5	3.6	238	47.46	 0.4974 	 478.52 	132.22
							
iBurst  	1	1	199	13.18	 0.9621 	 206.84 	199.00
MTN HSDPA	1	1.8	289	23.73	 0.9789 	 295.22 	160.56
MyWireless	1	1	299	13.18	 0.9621 	 310.79 	299.00
Vodacom HSDPA	1	3.6	338	47.46	 0.9895 	 341.60 	93.89
Telkom WiMax	1	0.5	319	6.59	 0.9241 	 345.18 	638.00
Telkom DSL 384	1	0.375	323.2	4.94	 0.8989 	 359.56 	861.87
							
MTN HSDPA	2	1.8	389	23.73	 1.9157 	 203.06 	108.06
Vodacom HSDPA	2	3.6	438	47.46	 1.9579 	 223.71 	60.83
Telkom WiMax	2	0.5	389	6.59	 1.6966 	 229.28 	389.00
Telkom DSL 384	2	0.375	382.2	4.94	 1.5955 	 239.56 	509.60
MyWireless	2	1	449	13.18	 1.8483 	 242.93 	224.50
							
iBurst  	3	1	449	13.18	 2.6587 	 168.88 	149.67
Telkom WiMax	3	0.5	479	6.59	 2.3173 	 206.70 	319.33
Vodacom HSDPA	3	3.6	638	47.46	 2.9052 	 219.61 	59.07
Telkom DSL 4Mb	3	4	678.2	52.73	 2.9147 	 232.69 	56.52
NB: I would much rather see achievable speeds used than the advertised speeds. Reducing the 1 hour per day input would increase the importance of speed. One could argue for a lower amount.
Click to expand...
Ok, for a doffie like me [today at least], I need to be looking at the "Cost/Benefit" ratio column to determine which service is "better" than the other services and presumably a lower figure indicates that the service provides more benfit, correct?

Also, what do the values in the "Benefit" column represent or signify, are these weighted values and if so how are they weighted, and what is the "Max" column for :confused:
 
ic said:
Ok, for a doffie like me [today at least], I need to be looking at the "Cost/Benefit" ratio column to determine which service is "better" than the other services and presumably a lower figure indicates that the service provides more benfit, correct?
Click to expand...

It is the cost of each unit of "benefit", yes.

Also, what do the values in the "Benefit" column represent or signify, are these weighted values and if so how are they weighted, and what is the "Max" column for :confused:
Click to expand...

You need to refer to the original post I made last year:

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showpost.php?p=1164920&postcount=23

You can look at "Benefit" as a speed-adjusted number of Gigs you will recieve. If you receive them faster, they are worth more.

Max is what the average joe who has an uncapped service would download.

In the above table, the assumption is that he would downlad at full tilt for 1 hour per day. This is an input into the algorithm, so that

Benefit = ( 1 - cap/(2 * max)) * cap.
 
Gatecrasher said:
It is the cost of each unit of "benefit", yes.



You need to refer to the original post I made last year:

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showpost.php?p=1164920&postcount=23

You can look at "Benefit" as a speed-adjusted number of Gigs you will recieve. If you receive them faster, they are worth more.

Max is what the average joe who has an uncapped service would download.

In the above table, the assumption is that he would downlad at full tilt for 1 hour per day. This is an input into the algorithm, so that

Benefit = ( 1 - cap/(2 * max)) * cap.
Click to expand...

I like the idea of a more complete calculation that can take multiple parameters into account AND also the relative weight of those.

Maybe you can work in a factor where one can plug in your preference, or relative importance (0 - 1) for speed, cap, etc.

While in your case you believe cap is more important than speed, others might have a different set of needs. Your classic road-warrior, for example, would probably use little data, but need it near real-time.
 
vodacom3g said:
While in your case you believe cap is more important than speed, others might have a different set of needs. Your classic road-warrior, for example, would probably use little data, but need it near real-time.
Click to expand...
Yep, we have seen that reflected in thread polls - specifically a while back when Vodacom upgraded from 3G-R'99 to HSDPA 1.8 IIRC - which really surprised me at the time bcos I tend to think of cost first and then consider other factors - next on my personal list is low & stable latency followed by cap limits, but there was a definitive set of forumites that wanted more speed and were prepared to pay more for it...:eek:

The problem is that there is no way that a multitude of different weighted [human] viewpoints [subjective statistical interpretations] can be represented in a news article.

For MBB's Broadband Report, rpm asks forumites to provide their own personal preferences for such weighted factors - their own personal opinion of which are more important relative to one another, and then rpm presumably takes an average representative weighting of all forumite responses, to apply within the algorithm that is used for MBB's Broadband Report.
 
milomak said:
Is there a post where you explain how you derive the formula?
Click to expand...

No, but it is explained in the link. Perhaps to explain it better:

Benefit = average data received. If you receive 1 gb every day of a 30 day month (slow uncapped connection), the benefit is 15gb (0.5 + 1.5 + 2.5 +...+ 27.5 + 28.5 + 29.5)/30.

Benefit = (1 - cap /(2*max))*cap, where cap = max = 30, thus
Benefit = (1-30/60)*30 = 15gb

If you recieve 30gb on day 1 (fast capped connection), and nothing thereafter, the benefit is 29.5gb (15 + 30 + 30 +...+ 30 + 30 + 30)/30.

So in the formula

Benefit = (1 - cap/(2*max))*cap, where cap = 30, max = 900, thus
Benefit = (1 - 30/1800)*30 = 29.5gb

Basically, a connection that can deliver your 30gb cap instantaneously at the stoke of midnight on the first day of the month has double the benefit of a connection can only deliver your 30gb cap evenly over the course of a month.

So, cap > benefit >= cap/2 depending on the speed of the connection.
 
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