We have one of the most beautiful environments (thus creating a large tourism market), a booming industry, first world infrastructure (if well maintained), a good education system with a university ranked the best in Africa and in the top 200 in the world, the most entrepreneurial city in SA, great agricultural economy (including world-renowned wine), and our greatest asset: our location. We are located on an important trade route and our port can our gateway to success. It's location and importance as a trade port is the reason why Cape Town was founded in the first place.
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Cape Independence!
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We have one of the most beautiful environments (thus creating a large tourism market), a booming industry, first world infrastructure (if well maintained), a good education system with a university ranked the best in Africa and in the top 200 in the world, the most entrepreneurial city in SA, great agricultural economy (including world-renowned wine), and our greatest asset: our location. We are located on an important trade route and our port can our gateway to success. It's location and importance as a trade port is the reason why Cape Town was founded in the first place.
some resons i'll blot down:
Zimbabwe ad it's economic impact,
and the migrants, the migrants, in the late 80s and early 90s, why should we pay for them, from the EC, these people make up the majority of our poverty,
the failed unreliable government up north, the really lack luster economy( one would think, that when apartheid ended, all the new opportunities would have sparked a boom, yet the currency now being 4 x weaker to the pound than 18 years ago, our crumbling education system,
endless pointless strikes even in the healthcare system,
electricity,
scandals,
AIDS and how it's managed,
New viruses going around all due to the government not taking good precausions on immegrants, only caring about their brother, or that has been the usual case. which viruses are next?
communications monopoly - we hold the cables now hey
communist healthcare
no elite crime unit
the threat of communism, etc...
Yes i'll defiantly be looking into this. And i'm sure many others will too.
Zimbabwe ad it's economic impact,
and the migrants, the migrants, in the late 80s and early 90s, why should we pay for them, from the EC, these people make up the majority of our poverty,
the failed unreliable government up north, the really lack luster economy( one would think, that when apartheid ended, all the new opportunities would have sparked a boom, yet the currency now being 4 x weaker to the pound than 18 years ago, our crumbling education system,
endless pointless strikes even in the healthcare system,
electricity,
scandals,
AIDS and how it's managed,
New viruses going around all due to the government not taking good precausions on immegrants, only caring about their brother, or that has been the usual case. which viruses are next?
communications monopoly - we hold the cables now hey
communist healthcare
no elite crime unit
the threat of communism, etc...
Yes i'll defiantly be looking into this. And i'm sure many others will too.
Last edited:
Well I blame it on education. One of the main focus points of the Western Cape will be to implement a rigorous education system. I read the DA's policy on education and maybe something like this can be implemented: http://www.da.org.za/wp-content/uploads/da_education_policy-preparing_for_success-2008-10-07.pdf. If we have a successful education system, we have more skilled people, meaning a sustainable growth. It's the primary weapon we have to reduce poverty and fight crime in my opinion.
Hosehead
Executive Member
Well we do have several military bases. We just need to populate them with things other than refugees. We could park the Brits, the Germans, the Moroccans or the Yanks on a 99 year lease at Ysterplaat for example and let them provide air support.
Debbie
Banned
And thirdly, they're both predominantly surrounded by water. Which the cape is not, to point out the obvious.
Are you listening to yourself here?
Here is a dirty little secret, no one has any idea how these things "work", in any country, anywhere in the world, ever.
Yes, I know, but water means little nowadays. Look at the number of illegal immigrants crossing the Mediterranean to reach Europe. It's the size of border which counts. Singapore and Hong Kong both have smaller borders (including maritime borders) than the Western Cape and are thus easier to patrol. Water isn't an immediate factor of deterrence.
Yes, and?
Actually there are a few city-states which work fine, such as Singapore and Monaco actually. London is a non-sovereign city-state as well as Washinton DC and Hong Kong. So I think there are quite a few territories who knows how it works. However the Western Cape is far from a city-state, way too large to be one.
Debbie
Banned
I understand what you are saying but, speaking in general, think you grossly underestimate the deterrence water provides.
Well you talk as if support from other nations is a given. "Counting chickens".
You miss my point. Which is not unsurprising because it is obscure. Anyway, I did not mean to imply that city-states cannot or don't "work". When I said that no one knows how these things "work" what I was referring to, to put it more concretely, was the process of "breaking away", and how there is no "guidebook" as to how to go about doing this. It was also a comment on the location of "the authority" to do this (break away). In every context it is unchartered territory, requiring pioneers (politically speaking).
Cape-Independence
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Political pioneers is exactly what the Cape and indeed the rest of SA need. The Cape Party has a come about to fill this vacuum for all the people of the Cape, regardless of race or culture, and believes secession is the only and best way forward for the Cape.
Cape independence is not only possible, but totally legal both domestically and internationally. Arguments by those who would label it as "Volkstaad" or exclusive are completely misguided and untrue. Also, at present the Cape is being drained of over 75% of its revenue in taxes. That means that right now the Cape is surviving on a quarter of its taxed wealth.
If the Cape returned to independence it would immediately have 4 times more money to spend on its own people than is now being spent by the South African government.
According to the latest data, in 2008 the Gross Domestic Product of the Western Cape was R175 billion. Financial intermediation, insurance, real estate and business services was the largest producing sector at R54 billion. Manufacturing came second at R30 billion. Wholesale and retail trade, catering and accommodation produced R29 billion, followed by an established agricultural, forestry and fishing sector. These are hallmarks of a well balanced first-world economy. This confirms that in spite of the government’s extraction of wealth the Cape is by itself a world class economy.
The Party was created about 11 months ago, and got over 2500 votes in 2 months of campaigning down here. Needless to say they'll only be running in provincial elections. Since the recent elections, interest has boomed, our ranks have swollen and people both within the Cape and outside SA are listening and taking a stance. Even the ANC recently announced that given the opportunity in a referendum, the people of the would opt for secession. However true that might be, there is definately a growing movement for Cape Independence, the rule of law and liberty...
All other parties are trying to gain what little power they can on a national framework and by doing so obediently endorse the majority principles that define our racist government. These parties neglect the local regions that elected them in the hope that they might gain more power nationally. The Cape Party is the only group that can defend what is morally right in a way that all other political parties are incapable of. The Cape Party’s focus is on ‘real politics’ how real people’s lives are affected on the ground from day to day.
An independent Cape would benefit all who live in it, all who might want to live in it in the future and all other nations who want to interact/trade with the Cape.
For those interested:
The Facebook group: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2372533283
Website: www.capeparty.com
Or you can contact the Cape Party Head office 021 671 8668.
Cape independence is not only possible, but totally legal both domestically and internationally. Arguments by those who would label it as "Volkstaad" or exclusive are completely misguided and untrue. Also, at present the Cape is being drained of over 75% of its revenue in taxes. That means that right now the Cape is surviving on a quarter of its taxed wealth.
If the Cape returned to independence it would immediately have 4 times more money to spend on its own people than is now being spent by the South African government.
According to the latest data, in 2008 the Gross Domestic Product of the Western Cape was R175 billion. Financial intermediation, insurance, real estate and business services was the largest producing sector at R54 billion. Manufacturing came second at R30 billion. Wholesale and retail trade, catering and accommodation produced R29 billion, followed by an established agricultural, forestry and fishing sector. These are hallmarks of a well balanced first-world economy. This confirms that in spite of the government’s extraction of wealth the Cape is by itself a world class economy.
The Party was created about 11 months ago, and got over 2500 votes in 2 months of campaigning down here. Needless to say they'll only be running in provincial elections. Since the recent elections, interest has boomed, our ranks have swollen and people both within the Cape and outside SA are listening and taking a stance. Even the ANC recently announced that given the opportunity in a referendum, the people of the would opt for secession. However true that might be, there is definately a growing movement for Cape Independence, the rule of law and liberty...
All other parties are trying to gain what little power they can on a national framework and by doing so obediently endorse the majority principles that define our racist government. These parties neglect the local regions that elected them in the hope that they might gain more power nationally. The Cape Party is the only group that can defend what is morally right in a way that all other political parties are incapable of. The Cape Party’s focus is on ‘real politics’ how real people’s lives are affected on the ground from day to day.
An independent Cape would benefit all who live in it, all who might want to live in it in the future and all other nations who want to interact/trade with the Cape.
For those interested:
The Facebook group: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2372533283
Website: www.capeparty.com
Or you can contact the Cape Party Head office 021 671 8668.
ToxicBunny
Oi! Leave me out of this...
Politcal pioneers? please don't make me laugh, if you're a representation of the Cape Party, then political pioneers they do NOT have, since you have shown a poor grasp of the concept of politics in this country. You've also brought forth some very racist points of view in your posts.
Cape independence is only legal based on your skewed interpretation of a PORTION of article 235 of the Consitution of South Africa. On what basis is it legal internationally if I may be so bold as to ask that very simple question.
The Cape is being drained of over 75% of its revenue in taxes?... ok, Please present your points of reference for that "fact" because as I see it given the Western Capes GDPR for 2004 at R199 412 million, and a rough growth percentage of 4% P.A. gives them a GDPR for 2008 of roughly R288284million, and we'll take a rought taxation figure of 35% (being very conservative here) on that figure. This means that the Cape is handing over R81649million in taxes to the National Treasury, and then receiving only R20412million back from the National Government. You're going to have to justify that kind of claim, or you'll be called out for being a liar AGAIN.
Where do you get your figure of R175billion as a GDPR for the Western Cape in 2008?... because my 2004 figures, which are official are higher than that. Therefore your claims are already looking very very shaky. You're quoting more figures, please provide the official source that you are getting these figures from.
Ok, so the Cape Party was created 11 months ago, and garned 0.13 percent of the Provinicial vote in the Western Cape, and se voet only 2 months of campaigning. If you were created 11 months ago, you have been campaigning in real terms for more than a year. COPE was created maybe what, 8 months ago? Yet they managed to garner just short of 8% of the provincial vote in the Western Cape, and nearly 9% of the National vote from Western Cape voters. Again dismal failure from your "party" on that front again. As for your statement that the ANC making that statement, please go and reread the "statement". It was not an official statement by the ANC, it was uttered by an ANC representative yes, but it was not an official statement. Therefore that is the opinion of ONE ANC member, not the ANC as a whole.
Please explain how the other parties neglect the local regions that elected them when the DA has done so much for Cape Town, and has now been able to govern the WC as well. Morally right? please explain that concept in more detail, and what do you define as "real politics"?
How EXACTLY would an independent Cape benefit all who live in it. Real concrete ideas if you please, not your wishy washy, airy fairy nonsense.
Cape independence is only legal based on your skewed interpretation of a PORTION of article 235 of the Consitution of South Africa. On what basis is it legal internationally if I may be so bold as to ask that very simple question.
The Cape is being drained of over 75% of its revenue in taxes?... ok, Please present your points of reference for that "fact" because as I see it given the Western Capes GDPR for 2004 at R199 412 million, and a rough growth percentage of 4% P.A. gives them a GDPR for 2008 of roughly R288284million, and we'll take a rought taxation figure of 35% (being very conservative here) on that figure. This means that the Cape is handing over R81649million in taxes to the National Treasury, and then receiving only R20412million back from the National Government. You're going to have to justify that kind of claim, or you'll be called out for being a liar AGAIN.
Where do you get your figure of R175billion as a GDPR for the Western Cape in 2008?... because my 2004 figures, which are official are higher than that. Therefore your claims are already looking very very shaky. You're quoting more figures, please provide the official source that you are getting these figures from.
Ok, so the Cape Party was created 11 months ago, and garned 0.13 percent of the Provinicial vote in the Western Cape, and se voet only 2 months of campaigning. If you were created 11 months ago, you have been campaigning in real terms for more than a year. COPE was created maybe what, 8 months ago? Yet they managed to garner just short of 8% of the provincial vote in the Western Cape, and nearly 9% of the National vote from Western Cape voters. Again dismal failure from your "party" on that front again. As for your statement that the ANC making that statement, please go and reread the "statement". It was not an official statement by the ANC, it was uttered by an ANC representative yes, but it was not an official statement. Therefore that is the opinion of ONE ANC member, not the ANC as a whole.
Please explain how the other parties neglect the local regions that elected them when the DA has done so much for Cape Town, and has now been able to govern the WC as well. Morally right? please explain that concept in more detail, and what do you define as "real politics"?
How EXACTLY would an independent Cape benefit all who live in it. Real concrete ideas if you please, not your wishy washy, airy fairy nonsense.
Cape-Independence
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Well done on pulling the racism card, in the context of SA and secession history it is expected and unorigional. Our drive toward Secession is for ALL the people of the Cape - the true rainbow nation...
Im gonna enjoy talkin to you toxic. I do not solely represent the Party and am not solely reflective of its stance on everything, but will do my best to get you some more figures on economic justification for secession...
The Cape Party were only actively campaigning on the ground for 2 months prior to the provincial election. Your continuos references to COPE maybe implies you are a supporter of them? Beside the point, but COPE had MASSIVE funding, as well as being firmly entrenched into the political scene following their break away from the ANC.
Regarding the statement by the AND regarding secession: "It was not an official statement by the ANC, it was uttered by an ANC representative yes, but it was not an official statement. Therefore that is the opinion of ONE ANC member, not the ANC as a whole." I understand this. Therefore you should not assume that everything I say is solely representative of the Cape Party. Also, it came from the ANC leadership in the WC, and the fact that they made reference to it during these times, should hint at the secessionist mood within our province. It didnt just fall out of the sky. People here are talking.
Il let you answer before continuing with your other questions...
Im gonna enjoy talkin to you toxic. I do not solely represent the Party and am not solely reflective of its stance on everything, but will do my best to get you some more figures on economic justification for secession...
The Cape Party were only actively campaigning on the ground for 2 months prior to the provincial election. Your continuos references to COPE maybe implies you are a supporter of them? Beside the point, but COPE had MASSIVE funding, as well as being firmly entrenched into the political scene following their break away from the ANC.
Regarding the statement by the AND regarding secession: "It was not an official statement by the ANC, it was uttered by an ANC representative yes, but it was not an official statement. Therefore that is the opinion of ONE ANC member, not the ANC as a whole." I understand this. Therefore you should not assume that everything I say is solely representative of the Cape Party. Also, it came from the ANC leadership in the WC, and the fact that they made reference to it during these times, should hint at the secessionist mood within our province. It didnt just fall out of the sky. People here are talking.
Il let you answer before continuing with your other questions...
ToxicBunny
Oi! Leave me out of this...
Umm, you are the one who pulled the racism card previously, I just pointed that out.
Why is your drive, which is backed by 0.13 percent of the population, more important than the drive, that is backed by more than 50% of the population of the WC, to have the DA help better the province as a whole?
Ok, you've made these "economic" statements, all I'm asking for is the official reports that you gleaned them from.
I like how you assume things, its going to make this more interesting in the long run, but you're sorely mistaken, I am marginally a DA supporter since they've got a track record of doing good in this country.
Ok following is a quote from your post....
Go ahead, answer all my questions, so far you've not given satisfactory answers to ANY of them, and you're still avoiding my point about you cherry picking a SECTION of an article of the Constitution of South Africa to justify your right to secession
Why is your drive, which is backed by 0.13 percent of the population, more important than the drive, that is backed by more than 50% of the population of the WC, to have the DA help better the province as a whole?
Ok, you've made these "economic" statements, all I'm asking for is the official reports that you gleaned them from.
I like how you assume things, its going to make this more interesting in the long run, but you're sorely mistaken, I am marginally a DA supporter since they've got a track record of doing good in this country.
Ok following is a quote from your post....
Please tell me how you can now try backtrack and say that you understand the "opinion of one ANC member" as not being a statement by the ANC, and iirc that "opinion" was in a letter to a newspaper, not an official statement by any ANC representative. People are talking, but talk does not equal will happen.
Go ahead, answer all my questions, so far you've not given satisfactory answers to ANY of them, and you're still avoiding my point about you cherry picking a SECTION of an article of the Constitution of South Africa to justify your right to secession
Cape-Independence
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"Why is your drive, which is backed by 0.13 percent of the population, more important than the drive, that is backed by more than 50% of the population of the WC, to have the DA help better the province as a whole?"
Ive already said, we are grateful to have the DA govern us privincially, but do not believe it to be able to secure our freedoms, and would like to govern ourselves outright at national level. As to the percentages, I wanna show you something out of the Cape Argus relatively recently...
"The Western Cape truly is a place apart
Okay, so who were the 2552 people who voted in these elections for the Cape to be declared independent? Own up.
It's quite a scary number. The Cape Party, whose sole policy seemed to be some kind of secession from the rest of South Africa, got double the votes received in this province by such venerable political institutions as AZAPO and the IFP.
And support for the independence movement was not far short of the paltry ten thousand who voted locally for the various Moslem parties.
Generally speaking this election has seen a welcome set-back for faith-based politics.
The ACDP’s national total was far less than the two hundred thousand men who reportedly attended evangelist Angus Buchan’s Mighty Men gathering in KZN this past weekend and way short of the more than a million Zion church members who trekked to Moria at Easter. Thankfully the overwhelming majority of South Africans seem to be able to keep their politics and their religion apart.
And while we’re expressing delight at backward steps, what about the pitiful 8,384 recorded in the province by the very visible Freedom Front Plus (which still sounds to me like a brand of tampon). By my reckoning they had more posters in the Cape than they got votes. Who funds this madness? Why don’t they just quietly fold their tents and leave us all in peace?
Very small minority parties achieve little other than to muddy the water and clutter the lampposts. If they must exist it should be for the kind of entertainment value provided for decades in Britain by Screaming Lord Sutch and his Monster Raving Loony Party. That party name wouldn’t work here though as many would mistake it either for the ANC Youth League or Peter Marais’ latest incarnation.
But the supporters of the Cape Party will be feeling their fight was not in vain because their policy goal of separating us from the rest of the country might have been achieved by DA voters.
We truly are now a place apart.
The ANC behemoth comprehensively dominates the nation, its provinces and its municipalities with the very stark exception of our corner of the country where the DA has its paws on both city and province.
On one view that’s a clear triumph for Helen Zille and for multi-party democracy. She has outmanoeuvred a changing cast of ANC heavies who have tried to unseat her council coalition and then did their damndest to keep her short of an absolute majority in the province.
On another view, it is disturbing that she has achieved her victory on the back of a deepening demographic divide in which her supporters are overwhelmingly coloured and white.
What I am not sure of is, why the DA’s failure to gain black support in the province is any more worthy of negative comment than the ANC’s inability to attract coloured and white voters? Both are equally in their electoral laagers.
I am also baffled as to why the controversial ‘Stop Zuma’ posters were so widely described as racist. That strategy by the DA made my teeth grind and it confined the party to a negative and reactive space rather than promising good governance and better policies but Zuma is not a proxy for black. He was the very high profile candidate of the ANC and a controversial one. They chose to put his face in our faces in every way possible. He was a valid target.
Some are claiming that particular poster and the DA’s verbal and legal assaults against Jacob Zuma during the election make it impossible for the provincial and national administrations to work together from now on. They forget that politicians the world over seem to find it amazingly easy to forget the bitter hustings rhetoric and to move forward.
Zuma and Zille, and the governments they head, will work together well enough if they both choose to and perceive it to be in their interests to do so.
But there a couple of clear dangers.
One is that the ANC at national level will replicate the petty niggling tactics of Ebrahim Rasool’s provincial administration towards the DA- led city council. Some of the more sordid figures in ANC Cape politics will be urging the use of the budget as a political tool. At the council Zille could raise her own funds through local rates, now as premier she’s entirely beholden to the Finance Minister. The formulas which deliver those allocations could be open to manipulation.
On the other hand Helen Zille has to avoid turning every hiccup or disagreement in the relationship into a political conspiracy. She has her role to play in keeping the dialogue functional rather than emotional.
She must remember that she's premier of a province not President of the Cape Republic. Not yet anyway!"
Ive already said, we are grateful to have the DA govern us privincially, but do not believe it to be able to secure our freedoms, and would like to govern ourselves outright at national level. As to the percentages, I wanna show you something out of the Cape Argus relatively recently...
"The Western Cape truly is a place apart
Okay, so who were the 2552 people who voted in these elections for the Cape to be declared independent? Own up.
It's quite a scary number. The Cape Party, whose sole policy seemed to be some kind of secession from the rest of South Africa, got double the votes received in this province by such venerable political institutions as AZAPO and the IFP.
And support for the independence movement was not far short of the paltry ten thousand who voted locally for the various Moslem parties.
Generally speaking this election has seen a welcome set-back for faith-based politics.
The ACDP’s national total was far less than the two hundred thousand men who reportedly attended evangelist Angus Buchan’s Mighty Men gathering in KZN this past weekend and way short of the more than a million Zion church members who trekked to Moria at Easter. Thankfully the overwhelming majority of South Africans seem to be able to keep their politics and their religion apart.
And while we’re expressing delight at backward steps, what about the pitiful 8,384 recorded in the province by the very visible Freedom Front Plus (which still sounds to me like a brand of tampon). By my reckoning they had more posters in the Cape than they got votes. Who funds this madness? Why don’t they just quietly fold their tents and leave us all in peace?
Very small minority parties achieve little other than to muddy the water and clutter the lampposts. If they must exist it should be for the kind of entertainment value provided for decades in Britain by Screaming Lord Sutch and his Monster Raving Loony Party. That party name wouldn’t work here though as many would mistake it either for the ANC Youth League or Peter Marais’ latest incarnation.
But the supporters of the Cape Party will be feeling their fight was not in vain because their policy goal of separating us from the rest of the country might have been achieved by DA voters.
We truly are now a place apart.
The ANC behemoth comprehensively dominates the nation, its provinces and its municipalities with the very stark exception of our corner of the country where the DA has its paws on both city and province.
On one view that’s a clear triumph for Helen Zille and for multi-party democracy. She has outmanoeuvred a changing cast of ANC heavies who have tried to unseat her council coalition and then did their damndest to keep her short of an absolute majority in the province.
On another view, it is disturbing that she has achieved her victory on the back of a deepening demographic divide in which her supporters are overwhelmingly coloured and white.
What I am not sure of is, why the DA’s failure to gain black support in the province is any more worthy of negative comment than the ANC’s inability to attract coloured and white voters? Both are equally in their electoral laagers.
I am also baffled as to why the controversial ‘Stop Zuma’ posters were so widely described as racist. That strategy by the DA made my teeth grind and it confined the party to a negative and reactive space rather than promising good governance and better policies but Zuma is not a proxy for black. He was the very high profile candidate of the ANC and a controversial one. They chose to put his face in our faces in every way possible. He was a valid target.
Some are claiming that particular poster and the DA’s verbal and legal assaults against Jacob Zuma during the election make it impossible for the provincial and national administrations to work together from now on. They forget that politicians the world over seem to find it amazingly easy to forget the bitter hustings rhetoric and to move forward.
Zuma and Zille, and the governments they head, will work together well enough if they both choose to and perceive it to be in their interests to do so.
But there a couple of clear dangers.
One is that the ANC at national level will replicate the petty niggling tactics of Ebrahim Rasool’s provincial administration towards the DA- led city council. Some of the more sordid figures in ANC Cape politics will be urging the use of the budget as a political tool. At the council Zille could raise her own funds through local rates, now as premier she’s entirely beholden to the Finance Minister. The formulas which deliver those allocations could be open to manipulation.
On the other hand Helen Zille has to avoid turning every hiccup or disagreement in the relationship into a political conspiracy. She has her role to play in keeping the dialogue functional rather than emotional.
She must remember that she's premier of a province not President of the Cape Republic. Not yet anyway!"
Cape-Independence
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Bru, of course i'l answer all your questions as best I can. For now though, lets just agree to disagree, im fervently Cape separatist and not for the "wrong" reasons. Gonna get dinner quick.
ToxicBunny
Oi! Leave me out of this...
Ok just a few points as I work through your copy and paste from from the Argus.
IFP and AZAPO have NEVER been even vaguely respresented in the WC. So to beat them is not really a challenge, and nothing to "brag" about.
What does that point about party names etc have to do with anything, other than a useless factoid?
How exactly can the Cape Party claim to have possibly achieved their policy goal by getting the DA voted in? The DA does not want to see the Western Cape as an independent country.
You are not now truly a place apart, you are still the Western Cape, which is a province of the Republic of South Africa.
The ANC dominates the majority of the country, but the Western Cape is NOT the sole place where they no longer hold sway, please check your ego at the door and only present facts in this debate.
The DA scored big time in the Western Cape and its good that they have, now they can show the rest of the country how a government should hopefully work for the people rather than against the people.
Deepening demographic divide? how so? The majority of the DA's support has always been coloured and white, this is nothing new. They have just managed to convince more African voters to give them a chance.
The DA did manage to gain black support in the province, this is evidenced by the fact that they have the majority in parliament for the WC.
I will refrain from commenting on the Stop Zuma thing... its irrelevant actually.
Ok.. The majority of that article has more to do with the DA governing the WC than the Cape Party.. and the bit that relates to the Cape Party is not factually based, but based on a skewed opinion.
IFP and AZAPO have NEVER been even vaguely respresented in the WC. So to beat them is not really a challenge, and nothing to "brag" about.
What does that point about party names etc have to do with anything, other than a useless factoid?
How exactly can the Cape Party claim to have possibly achieved their policy goal by getting the DA voted in? The DA does not want to see the Western Cape as an independent country.
You are not now truly a place apart, you are still the Western Cape, which is a province of the Republic of South Africa.
The ANC dominates the majority of the country, but the Western Cape is NOT the sole place where they no longer hold sway, please check your ego at the door and only present facts in this debate.
The DA scored big time in the Western Cape and its good that they have, now they can show the rest of the country how a government should hopefully work for the people rather than against the people.
Deepening demographic divide? how so? The majority of the DA's support has always been coloured and white, this is nothing new. They have just managed to convince more African voters to give them a chance.
The DA did manage to gain black support in the province, this is evidenced by the fact that they have the majority in parliament for the WC.
I will refrain from commenting on the Stop Zuma thing... its irrelevant actually.
Ok.. The majority of that article has more to do with the DA governing the WC than the Cape Party.. and the bit that relates to the Cape Party is not factually based, but based on a skewed opinion.
Cape-Independence
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Opinion nonetheless, and after all, that's what this whole thing is about.
ToxicBunny
Oi! Leave me out of this...
Well, that was the opinion of an Argus journalist, so I can pick it apart and not expect a response.
You on the other hand are all for Cape Independence, so you need to have valid reasons why you think its "right" which so far you have failed to provide.
You on the other hand are all for Cape Independence, so you need to have valid reasons why you think its "right" which so far you have failed to provide.
2CentsWorth
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- 2
What's in it for you? Becoming an independent country will likely harm the WC people more than do good (even assuming a peaceful march to independence which in all honesty it will probably not be), what's in it for you?
Cape-Independence
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2009
- Messages
- 401
- Reaction score
- 3
The vast majority of people down here simply wont stand for whats become of SA over the past few years, and have shown that in their voting. Things like:
- the pitiful stance taken by the Sa govt. to do nothing while our neighbour Zimbabwe was ransacked by a tyrant, (friends & family of current SA govt.)
- the subsequent opening of the border to the detriment of SA's unemployed
- the disbanding of the Scorpions and others who fought to limelight the blatant corruption in SA's present govt.
- the attacks on the Independence of the Judiciary and appointment by those in line with ANC policies
- a collapse in "government run" institutions, (SABC, SAA, ESKOM and almost everything down to Robben island)
- political intimidation
- outdated BEE discrimination
- "Africans" in line for free housing in the WC before coloureds or anyone else
- attacks on the media, (SABC was nationalised not too long ago, Zuma & Zapiro court case, etc)
- Cosatu's constant attempts to further cripple the economy
- the SACP, who have very little support, have over one-third of the ANC's seats in parliament
- a disability to effectively tackle crime
The list really does go on and on
- the pitiful stance taken by the Sa govt. to do nothing while our neighbour Zimbabwe was ransacked by a tyrant, (friends & family of current SA govt.)
- the subsequent opening of the border to the detriment of SA's unemployed
- the disbanding of the Scorpions and others who fought to limelight the blatant corruption in SA's present govt.
- the attacks on the Independence of the Judiciary and appointment by those in line with ANC policies
- a collapse in "government run" institutions, (SABC, SAA, ESKOM and almost everything down to Robben island)
- political intimidation
- outdated BEE discrimination
- "Africans" in line for free housing in the WC before coloureds or anyone else
- attacks on the media, (SABC was nationalised not too long ago, Zuma & Zapiro court case, etc)
- Cosatu's constant attempts to further cripple the economy
- the SACP, who have very little support, have over one-third of the ANC's seats in parliament
- a disability to effectively tackle crime
The list really does go on and on
Cape-Independence
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2009
- Messages
- 401
- Reaction score
- 3
How can we not gain through secession?
The WC is being milked and exploited, the MK "war veterans" and malema calls for the destabilization of the Cape. Is this SA democracy? We want out.
The WC is being milked and exploited, the MK "war veterans" and malema calls for the destabilization of the Cape. Is this SA democracy? We want out.
ToxicBunny
Oi! Leave me out of this...
Are you sure the majority of people won't stand for whats become of SA?... you are basing this assumption on what research? and please don't mention your paltry 0.13 percent of the PROVINCIAL vote.
You may not stand for it, but you have as much say as anyone else in the governing of SA when the voting periods come around.
You've still yet to put forth any VALID arguments why WC should get independence.
You may not stand for it, but you have as much say as anyone else in the governing of SA when the voting periods come around.
You've still yet to put forth any VALID arguments why WC should get independence.
- Status