CapeXit 2

Poll is for all in South Africa -

  • Do you believe W/Cape secession from the Republic is feasible ?

    Votes: 28 34.1%

  • Would you support a bid for W/Cape to secede from the Republic ?

    Votes: 33 40.2%

  • In the event of secession being successful, would you consider migrating to W/Cape ?

    Votes: 23 28.0%

  • In the event of secession being successful, would you consider migrating out of W/Cape ?

    Votes: 3 3.7%

  • Would you support other provinces bids for secession ?

    Votes: 20 24.4%

  • I disagree to all questions

    Votes: 35 42.7%

  • Would you support a "Swiss Canton" style of governance for the Republic ?

    Votes: 24 29.3%
  • Total voters
    82
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ToxicBunny said:
Of course they do, again you may not LIKE them, but they've largely passed muster via legal processes as being constitutional.
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It's not about like or dislike, where exactly is the following happening in our so called democratic fashion; transparency, and the rule of law to ensure, hold leaders accountable.
South Africa is definitely not ruled by the people 🙄
 
NoStepOnSnek88 said:
It's not about like or dislike, where exactly is the following happening in our so called democratic fashion; transparency, and the rule of law to ensure, hold leaders accountable.
South Africa is definitely not ruled by the people 🙄
Click to expand...

But it is largely via elections, you partake in those don't you?
 
Seems to me like Snek and TB may be using a different definition/interpretation of the word 'democracy'/'democratic'.

Whenever someone uses the word democracy to leverage their position.... find out whether they subscribe to :

1) Limited Democracy i.e. limited by a Bill of Rights, that isn't subject to the regular, majority vote.

OR

2) Unlimited Democracy i.e. where rights, such as the right to Freedom of Association, can be voted away, effectively turning minorities into work-units that can be compelled to associate with those they would not otherwise associate.

Being legally compelled to associate. This should be ringing bells for anyone opposed to the institution of chattel slavery.

I say that, going into the Rainbow Nation Project, there was a split between members, in terms of their interpretation of 'Democracy', going into this new union dispensation.

This has been bubbling away for 3 decades, now.

Remember the ANC's goal is the roll-out of the National Democratic Revolution, which entails fomenting a violent uprising to gain control over the apparatus of the State(completed circa 92-94), followed by the use of 'Democratic' means to gradually alter the legal code to usher in a Socialist/Communist form of government(chiefly through the undermining of existing legal protections of privacy of person and property... cue EWC, BEE).

The abolition of the private means of production, and effectively the institution of private property itself, is a prominent plank in the Communist Manifesto.

The ANC is still.... after 32 years as the ruling party, in SA, formally allied with the South African Communist Party. For the 10 years preceding Convid, the minister for Trade and Industry was a sitting member of the SA Communist Party.
 
lexity said:
Seems to me like Snek and TB may be using a different definition/interpretation of the word 'democracy'/'democratic'.

Whenever someone uses the word democracy to leverage their position.... find out whether they subscribe to :

1) Limited Democracy i.e. limited by a Bill of Rights, that isn't subject to the regular, majority vote.

OR

2) Unlimited Democracy i.e. where rights, such as the right to Freedom of Association, can be voted away, effectively turning minorities into work-units that can be compelled to associate with those they would not otherwise associate.

Being legally compelled to associate. This should be ringing bells for anyone opposed to the institution of chattel slavery.

I say that, going into the Rainbow Nation Project, there was a split between members, in terms of their interpretation of 'Democracy', going into this new union dispensation.

This has been bubbling away for 3 decades, now.

Remember the ANC's goal is the roll-out of the National Democratic Revolution, which entails fomenting a violent uprising to gain control over the apparatus of the State(completed circa 92-94), followed by the use of 'Democratic' means to gradually alter the legal code to usher in a Socialist/Communist form of government(chiefly through the undermining of existing legal protections of privacy of person and property... cue EWC, BEE).

The abolition of the private means of production, and effectively the institution of private property itself, is a prominent plank in the Communist Manifesto.

The ANC is still.... after 32 years as the ruling party, in SA, formally allied with the South African Communist Party. For the 10 years preceding Convid, the minister for Trade and Industry was a sitting member of the SA Communist Party.
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We have one definition of democracy in this country lexy.
 
lexity said:
Being legally compelled to associate. This should be ringing bells for anyone opposed to the institution of chattel slavery.
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Still waiting for your to tell us all how and when we are legally compelled to associate. Unless you are talking about people in prison..?

:unsure: Do you have something to confess Lexie?
 
Cray said:
Still waiting for your to tell us all how and when we are legally compelled to associate. Unless you are talking about people in prison..?

:unsure: Do you have something to confess Lexie?
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Sorry if I missed your question's post.

Can you link to, please?
 
Cray said:
Can you give me an example of this? I choose not to associate with 99.9% of people in this country, no one has told me I have to associate with anyone, nor have any legal terms or conditions been imposed on me.
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One example...

If your business makes more than a certain amount, you are deprived of free choice in who you can hire, and who you can sell shares to.

This is BEE, a system of race quotas. And it applies to everyone in SA, afaik.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
lexity said:
Granting you your premise for the sake of the argument, which definition is it compatible with:

1? Or 2?

Those are two incompatible definitions.

So which is it?
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We have one definition. It's simple.
 
ToxicBunny said:
No. We have one definition regardless of whatever nonsense you dream up.

Go Google it if youre unsure, you're old enough and ugly enough to learn something on your own
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Google is not a primary source.

If you don't want to paste the definition in here, then paste a link to the primary source in South African constitutional law.
 
ToxicBunny said:
But it is largely via elections, you partake in those don't you?
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What are you even on about?

So you then agree South Africa is RULED by it's people?
Leaders are hold accountable ?
There's transparency in our government?
All citizens have equal rights and influence?
The government is bound by a constitution ?
Elected officials are accountable to the electorate ?
Really? :rolleyes:
 
NoStepOnSnek88 said:
What are you even on about?

So you then agree South Africa is RULED by it's people?
Leaders are hold accountable ?
There's transparency in our government?
All citizens have equal rights and influence?
The government is bound by a constitution ?
Elected officials are accountable to the electorate ?
Really? :rolleyes:
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Via elections.

And yes they are bound by a constitution.

You may not like it, but we generally are.
 
It seems that for some MyBB-ers, democracy is defined as "government of the people, by the people we approve of, for the people who think like us".

Everything else is communism.

Old Abe Lincoln was so close to the truth in his Gettysburg address, but just messed up slightly.
 
vigras rojara said:
It seems that for some MyBB-ers, democracy is defined as "government of the people, by the people we approve of, for the people who think like us".

Everything else is communism.

Old Abe Lincoln was so close to the truth in his Gettysburg address, but just messed up slightly.
Click to expand...

Its actually a bit disappointing, but yeah it does seem to boil down to that.
If I don't like it, its not democracy.
 
vigras rojara said:
It seems that for some MyBB-ers, democracy is defined as "government of the people, by the people we approve of, for the people who think like us".

Everything else is communism.

Old Abe Lincoln was so close to the truth in his Gettysburg address, but just messed up slightly.
Click to expand...
What does democracy mean to you, vigras?

TB doesn't want to admit that a portion of South Africans interpret Democracy to be majoritarian / absolute rule by majority.

Do you have the courage to put your view out here, to enhance the discussion? Or are you going to defer to authority, without even listing a source, instead, like he keeps doing?
 
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