Capitec - Stolen Money

KalMaverick

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standard bank usually sends through the sms and "reserves" the funds. the statement will have "outstanding" in the line item iirc. depending on the retailer this "outstanding" stamp is removed during the course of 1 or 2 weeks.

the issue is the double sms by the looks of it. and with the monday being a holiday as well could have caused a delay also.

That was the problem, after 10 days (apparently) the funds move from 'to be processed' (reserved) to 'available' again. However you don't get a SMS or any line item on your statement, so you all of a sudden have a higher balance without knowing why and then people overspend when they don't think that is possible, being a savings account with no overdraft.
 

akescpt

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That was the problem, after 10 days (apparently) the funds move from 'to be processed' (reserved) to 'available' again. However you don't get a SMS or any line item on your statement, so you all of a sudden have a higher balance without knowing why and then people overspend when they don't think that is possible, being a savings account with no overdraft.

in some cases though the clients must bear some responsibility. you know what you bought and you know your balance. a sudden windfall from a bank should concern you rather than make you smile. when they discover it you can bet they will collect.

what bothers me is that something must have gone wrong with capitec's process but they wholeheartedly blaming the retailers. having just opened a savings account this is the issue bothering me the most.
 

noxibox

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Not too long ago I had a Woolworths transaction for which I received a notification, but it didn't show on that month's statement. A couple of months later it materialised on my statement, showing the correct transaction date. Obviously something went wrong with that batch of Woolworths transactions because all prior and subsequent purchases showed up when expected.

That seems to be it, however the problem is people received SMSs saying it was deducted, then carried on as normal, then the amount that was 'reserved' for those transations was available again all of a sudden a week or two later with no SMS or any indication letting customers know, so people actually spent money they didn't have.

They should have stopped that money from being used.
You wouldn't get a notification when a hold is released. If it did get released before the merchant finalised the transaction, then you'd get another notification for the same transaction. Ultimately it is the customer's responsibility to know how much money they've spent.

These systems work on batches of transactions. Files get generated on one system and gets sent to another in a format it understands. The merchants also use 3rd party companies to process their transactions. So somewhere a batch got lost. I'm not sure why the funds would get "unreserved". Maybe there is some timeout.
There is a timeout. It would never work to keep the hold on that money indefinitely.

I had a thread about this same issue with Standard Bank a few years ago. Same issue, weeks later my gf's and my account would get charged for transactions we forgot about already. Standard Bank blamed the merchants and Mastercard, never got a resolution for it. I'm now with FNB and never experienced this yet.
I doubt it has anything to do with the bank. I've seen this many times on every credit card, including FNB. Normally though the merchant will finalise the transaction before it expires.
 

KalMaverick

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in some cases though the clients must bear some responsibility. you know what you bought and you know your balance. a sudden windfall from a bank should concern you rather than make you smile. when they discover it you can bet they will collect.

what bothers me is that something must have gone wrong with capitec's process but they wholeheartedly blaming the retailers. having just opened a savings account this is the issue bothering me the most.

I agree 100%, clients must also take responsibility for spending money they didn't have, definitely won't argue with that.

However you would think opening a savings account, paying monthly fees and whatnot that the bank would at least prevent you from spending money you do not have in a savings account. That money that is meant for transaction X will stay unavailable until it is processed. That is my issue.

As for what went wrong I posted on a previous post what they put on Facebook, something about Absa POS machines not banking the transactions or something, I do not fully understand what happened though. It is still poor form though that not a single person picked this up between 13th December and now and notified clients to be wary of reversals of transactions. That is also a concern for me.

They need to put some better controls in place. Still love them though and will definitely not be moving.
 

KalMaverick

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I agree 100%, clients must also take responsibility for spending money they didn't have, definitely won't argue with that.

However you would think opening a savings account, paying monthly fees and whatnot that the bank would at least prevent you from spending money you do not have in a savings account. That money that is meant for transaction X will stay unavailable until it is processed. That is my issue.

As for what went wrong I posted on a previous post what they put on Facebook, something about Absa POS machines not banking the transactions or something, I do not fully understand what happened though. It is still poor form though that not a single person picked this up between 13th December and now and notified clients to be wary of reversals of transactions. That is also a concern for me.

They need to put some better controls in place. Still love them though and will definitely not be moving.

noxibox said:
I doubt it has anything to do with the bank. I've seen this many times on every credit card, including FNB. Normally though the merchant will finalise the transaction before it expires.

Why does it happen though on a savings account with a debit card? Is it a common sort of thing?
 

Ockie

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Why does it happen though on a savings account with a debit card? Is it a common sort of thing?

I suspect everyone affected has got the new(ish) MasterCard debit card. Even though it is a debit card, it works kind of like a cheque card to enable online purchases etc...therefore some transactions are delayed...similar to what you will see with cheque and credit cards.
 

noxibox

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What do you want the bank to do? A merchant initiates a transaction, then doesn't finalise it, which most often happens when the sale is cancelled or they ran the card in error (e.g. swiped twice). So must the bank now contact every merchant and ask about every transaction? Should they keep that hold indefinitely in case the merchant one day decides to finalise the transaction or requests the hold be cancelled? Certainly if all a merchant's transactions for a day lapse that would be unusual, but it is still really up to the merchant to process their transactions and the client to keep an eye on their spending.

There have definitely been times when I would have liked to have been notified once a hold was released, for example the time some twit merchant put two holds for large amounts on my card, effectively wiping out my credit limit.
 

Sherbang

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I'd be interested to know if all the point of sale devices involved came from one bank in particular, or multiple banks. It could be the bank that processed the transactions had a glitch...

EDIT: Yep, correct, just read on facebook now:
We can confirm that all these transactions debited late on our clients’ accounts were done at ABSA-supported card machines during the period 13 to 18 December 2012. In particular the majority of these transactions occurred at retailers supported by ABSA and who have the card machine integrated into their own till systems.
This late submission of transactions by ABSA is unusual but not outside the interbank card system rules. It is still uncertain how many of other banks’ clients were also affected.

/put on tin foil hat
ABSA is feeling threatened by Capitec so sabotaged them to make them appear incompetent!
 
Last edited:

KalMaverick

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I suspect everyone affected has got the new(ish) MasterCard debit card. Even though it is a debit card, it works kind of like a cheque card to enable online purchases etc...therefore some transactions are delayed...similar to what you will see with cheque and credit cards.

Oh right, I guess that makes sense. Is there anyway to ensure it is immediate?

@Noxibox

I understand what you're saying. However how about something in the Statement reflecting the fact an amount was not processed? If it is reserved and then later unreserved surely it cannot be to difficult for that to reflect as a line item?

Capitec is supposed to be simple and transparent, just looking at the Facebook page you can clearly see it is an issue for a lot of people.
 

Ockie

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Oh right, I guess that makes sense. Is there anyway to ensure it is immediate?
.

Ask them to switch you back to the old Maestro card. You will loose the ability to do online shopping though.
 

Alton Turner Blackwood

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I had a thread about this same issue with Standard Bank a few years ago. Same issue, weeks later my gf's and my account would get charged for transactions we forgot about already. Standard Bank blamed the merchants and Mastercard, never got a resolution for it. I'm now with FNB and never experienced this yet.
IN January last year I bought electricity via EasyPay. I never noticed that the amount didn't go off my account. In May or June some time I got a notification and was like WTF?!!! When I contacted EasyPay they told me it was for a transaction in Jan, I verified it on my Jan statement and sure thang no money moved from my account to them.

standard bank usually sends through the sms and "reserves" the funds. the statement will have "outstanding" in the line item iirc. depending on the retailer this "outstanding" stamp is removed during the course of 1 or 2 weeks.
On mine its called "Outstanding Card Authorization".
 

creeper

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On the Facebook page, it seems that it is the late merchant bank transactions from ABSA that is causing a lot of the problems. If this holds true, then the deductions may have been from transactions completed in December.
 

MagicDude4Eva

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I am cross-posting from this thread - perhaps someone can enlighten me ;-)

AFAIK all banks have the concept of Available Balance (thats the funds available where authorisations have been reserved but not debited from your account) and Latest Balance (thats how much you have in your account and it does not take reserved authorisations into account). So someone had 10K in their account around 15.12., then spend 8K (which Capitec reserved) and two weeks later those 8K authorisations got cleared (as ABSA seem to have not passed on the debits in time). Then people decide "wohooo" let's blow another 8 grand and now complain that the actual debit had been passed.

Pretty much sounds like "I am not going to pay for electricity if I dont receive an invoice".

Am I getting this wrong? To me it sounds like basic lifestyle management - surely you should ask yourself why your affordability is all of a sudden so good - or? I seriously doubt that people can be so uneducated to not get it (especially since those people have internet access and can complain about it on Facebook)
 

Flowerhat

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topic title now seems a bit sensational.

Perhaps it could be renamed to something more appropriate
 

Ockie

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CPI:SJ 18,970.00 ZAr 220.00 +1.17%

At least their share price did not take a nose dive. Seems like no damage on the market was caused. Hopefully it it will remain at some clients who just had their feathers ruffled a bit and does not cause Capitec serious harm.
 
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