Carnivore diet

Day 2 of carnivore for me. Stomach aint feeling great, slight cramps and energy levels feel really low but i had a bad night, the dogs were very restless because of the weather. Also had a slight headache when i woke up, i drank around 3l of water yesterday but also did 3k on the treadmill and probably sweated half of that out, forgot to take a salt tablet for electrolytes this morning. Planning on taking a day off from training today and just get some rest and will see how i feel tomorrow.
 
So, I did the carnivore a while back and fell off the wagon somewhere along the line.

Now I find myself 7 weeks into being nicotein free and right after silly season food shenanigans. The scale reads 100.8Kg, the gout has returned and I feel crap most of the time, so, back to carnivore it is.
 
BBSA said:
it's common to lose water weight initially when switching to a carnivore diet due to reduced carbohydrate intake. Carbs cause the body to retain water, so when you cut them out, your body excretes more water. This can also lead to a loss of electrolytes, particularly sodium, potassium, and magnesium, as they are excreted with the excess water. It's important to replenish electrolytes, especially in the early stages, to avoid symptoms like cramps, fatigue and headaches.
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How do carbs cause your body to retain water?
 
Daveogg said:
How do carbs cause your body to retain water?
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Carbs make your body hold onto water because of how they're stored as glycogen. For every gram of glycogen your body stores, it holds onto about 3–4 grams of water. So, if you’re eating a lot of carbs, you naturally carry more water weight.

On top of that, carbs boost insulin, which not only helps store glycogen but also tells your kidneys to keep sodium.
 
BBSA said:
Carbs make your body hold onto water because of how they're stored as glycogen. For every gram of glycogen your body stores, it holds onto about 3–4 grams of water. So, if you’re eating a lot of carbs, you naturally carry more water weight.

On top of that, carbs boost insulin, which not only helps store glycogen but also tells your kidneys to keep sodium.
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Exactly.
Pretty amazing physiology.
For moderate to high intensity exercise you need a rapidly available energy source, and a way to deal with excess heat produced. So store your energy source (glycogen), with your heat radiator(sweat).
Why reducing your glycogen stores is a good thing escapes me?
Unless you are not planning any moderate to high intensity exercise?
 
Daveogg said:
Exactly.
Pretty amazing physiology.
For moderate to high intensity exercise you need a rapidly available energy source, and a way to deal with excess heat produced. So store your energy source (glycogen), with your heat radiator(sweat).
Why reducing your glycogen stores is a good thing escapes me?
Unless you are not planning any moderate to high intensity exercise?
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Cutting down glycogen doesn’t really make sense if you’re planning on doing anything intense, like running sprints or lifting heavy. But if you’re mostly into low-intensity stuff or you’re on something like a carnivore or keto diet, your body shifts to burning fat instead. In that case, you don’t really need as much glycogen, so reducing it kind of works for that setup.
 
Pretty hardcore commitment tbh, I considered this but not being able to eat anything other than meat sounds kinda boring.
I'm sure the health benefits are worth it though.
 
BBSA said:
Cutting down glycogen doesn’t really make sense if you’re planning on doing anything intense, like running sprints or lifting heavy. But if you’re mostly into low-intensity stuff or you’re on something like a carnivore or keto diet, your body shifts to burning fat instead. In that case, you don’t really need as much glycogen, so reducing it kind of works for that setup.
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So sprinting or lifting weight uses a different bioenergetics system creatine phosphate.

Regarding glycogen as an energy source we are in the 60-80% of VO2 max region. IE the exact exercise intensity that causes mitochondrial and hence metabolic adaptation.

Don't limit your mitochondria.
 
Zurg said:
Pretty hardcore commitment tbh, I considered this but not being able to eat anything other than meat sounds kinda boring.
I'm sure the health benefits are worth it though.
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Carnivore isn't just about meat! You can also enjoy eggs, dairy, bone broth, and seafood. Plus, most carnivores love their coffee.
 
BBSA said:
Carnivore isn't just about meat! You can also enjoy eggs, dairy, bone broth, and seafood. Plus, most carnivores love their coffee.
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Yip, quite right!

Officially 1 year Carnivore today and last night I smashed a ton of calamari at Ocean Basket as a celebratory meal.

No going back for me now. Never feels like a sacrifice when people continually comment on the new 33kg lighter and smaller me. The improvements in my health have been amazing and as a father of 2 young girls, this was a major priority in order to watch them grow up.
 
Daveogg said:
So sprinting or lifting weight uses a different bioenergetics system creatine phosphate.

Regarding glycogen as an energy source we are in the 60-80% of VO2 max region. IE the exact exercise intensity that causes mitochondrial and hence metabolic adaptation.

Don't limit your mitochondria.
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In ketogenic athletes, studies by Volek and Phinney have shown that even upwards of 90% VO2 max they are still burning fat. What little blood sugar and glycogen they use apart from that, they readily make in perfect amounts. In fact, Volek showed in his 2016 Faster trial that on muscle biopsy in ketogenic and carbohydrate fuel athletes, the kids genetic athletes had the exact same amount of muscle glycogen before and after a 3-hour run, and recovered the same amount of glycogen as the carb fueled athletes who were sucking down sugar gels and drinks, whereas the ketogenic group did not take in any exogenous carbohydrates. You do not need to eat carbohydrates to use carbohydrates as an athlete, or to perform at an elite level. This has already been proven in large scale studies in elite athletes. The longer you are ketogenically adapted, the better your performance and the more they start outperforming carbohydrate fueled athletes.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1877629410771415245
 
Tim_vb said:
Its interesting how he makes the assumption that fibre is comply inert and does nothing else apart from "blocking" nutrient absorption. Its trivial to find research to that backs the idea this is not the case.
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The gut microbiome is pretty flexible, and it can change based on what you eat. While a diet high in fiber usually helps support a diverse range of gut bacteria, not having fiber doesn’t mean bad gut health, especially if you're getting enough healthy fats and proteins, which can still create a good environment for beneficial microbes.

Poor microbiome health is caused by diets high in sugar and processed foods, the overuse of antibiotics, and exposure to pesticides and chemicals, not by a lack of fibre.
 
BBSA said:
In ketogenic athletes, studies by Volek and Phinney have shown that even upwards of 90% VO2 max they are still burning fat. What little blood sugar and glycogen they use apart from that, they readily make in perfect amounts. In fact, Volek showed in his 2016 Faster trial that on muscle biopsy in ketogenic and carbohydrate fuel athletes, the kids genetic athletes had the exact same amount of muscle glycogen before and after a 3-hour run, and recovered the same amount of glycogen as the carb fueled athletes who were sucking down sugar gels and drinks, whereas the ketogenic group did not take in any exogenous carbohydrates. You do not need to eat carbohydrates to use carbohydrates as an athlete, or to perform at an elite level. This has already been proven in large scale studies in elite athletes. The longer you are ketogenically adapted, the better your performance and the more they start outperforming carbohydrate fueled athletes.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1877629410771415245
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Yea BBSA you will always be able to cherry pick a study to believe what you want.

I am afraid your quote of burning fat as a primary fuel at 90% of VO2 max just exposed a complete lack of understanding of bioenergetics.
This is is simply wrong.

Believe me if you want or continue your own path no stress to me.

But if you are talking elite endurance athletes name one who currently follows a low carb diet.

I have some experience in this field.
 
Daveogg said:
But if you are talking elite endurance athletes name one who currently follows a low carb diet.
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For this point to be valid surely we'd have to have a number of accounts of elite athletes getting worse on a carnivore diet too? The niche nature of the diet likely means hardly any have tried. And taking a risk on switching over, and the time it takes to adapt, also wouldn't be inviting. Notwithstanding at an elite level isn't there a lot of performance enhancing stuff and supplements muddying the waters?

I could only find some vague accounts of powerlifters claiming to lose performance on carnivore. And well, duh... gotta be big and fat for that - look at Eddie Hall in his "prime". :) I'd consider carnivore if I wanted pound for pound strength instead, I'd bet that it definitely won't work at getting as big and bulky as possible.

I can't comment on your other points, not my area of expertise. But the one above is just logic to me.

Edit: Apparently Zach Bitter follows low carb for what it's worth?
 
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Daveogg said:
Yea BBSA you will always be able to cherry pick a study to believe what you want.

I am afraid your quote of burning fat as a primary fuel at 90% of VO2 max just exposed a complete lack of understanding of bioenergetics.
This is is simply wrong.

Believe me if you want or continue your own path no stress to me.

But if you are talking elite endurance athletes name one who currently follows a low carb diet.

I have some experience in this field.
Click to expand...
One prominent elite endurance athlete who follows a low-carb diet is Zach Bitter, an ultramarathon runner and former 100-mile world record holder.
 
@BBSA - Whatever you do, do NOT feed the troll - especially if it's anti-carnivore (and has the same contrarian worldview pretty much everywhere else it posts rebuttals) - just ignore it and let it go and gnaw on a moistened celery stick, placed on a slice of gluten-free artisanal toast, liberally smeared with Lurpak butter (I hear it's made with Bovaer-infused dairy products) - it can wash that hearty (pun intended) meal down with a glass of fluoridated water (apparently that greatly IMPROVES mental acuity)...
..............

Lurpak butter and other Arla dairy products face BOYCOTT amid fury at cows being stuffed with 're-engineering' additives to meet net zero targets - GB News​

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Dairy giant Arla Foods is facing growing calls for a boycott of its products, including Lurpak butter, amid controversy over trials of a methane-reducing feed additive for cows.

The Danish-Swedish company, which owns Britain's largest dairy cooperative, has sparked outrage on social media after announcing plans to use Bovaer in cattle feed across 30 UK farms.

www.gbnews.com

Lurpak butter and other Arla dairy products face BOYCOTT amid fury at cows being stuffed with 're-engineering' additives to meet net zero targets

The Food Standards Agency (FSA) said all authorised feed additives, including Bovaer, have undergone its rigorous safety assessment
www.gbnews.com www.gbnews.com
 
BBSA said:
One prominent elite endurance athlete who follows a low-carb diet is Zach Bitter, an ultramarathon runner and former 100-mile world record holder.
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Zach Bitter interesting. I think he perfectly demonstrates the point. His world records were for the 100mile and 12hr on the TRACK. The physiological requirements for this event, never would exceed 60% of VO2 max. Interesting that he has no result in the events that ultra trail runners count. Hardrock, Western States, UTMB. So why would a world record holder never feature in any of these events? Perhaps as soon as he hits a climb, and the intensity increases, he blows up?

But exactly how low carb is Mr Bitter?

“I think it’s beneficial to start out strict to those parameters [50g per day] and let your body adapt but then once you get back into the flow of training, I think 100-150 grams per day carb is probably a better starting point”.

So half of this everyday?

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