Carnivore diet

Stinkbeaver said:
WTF? we were meant to sit full stop,
Click to expand...
Interesting that you want to apply the evolution makes right argument for diet but are then completely unwilling to even consider it for movement?

Hunter.
Gatherer.

In none of those societies are people sitting in chairs with their legs at 90° to their torsos for 8 hours a day, who then sit in the same position as they drive home, and then collapse into a couch for another 2 hours of muscle inactivity in pretty much the same 90° position. (Some of these people even lift weights sitting down.)

Aside from their varied daily movement, when resting those societies are sitting mostly on the ground, which forces you to constantly change positions, use muscles to keep yourself upright, muscles to raise & lower yourself off the ground and shift positions etc. Nothing about that kind of sitting causes chronic shortening of the posterior muscle chain the way sitting in a chair the whole day does. You could even make the argument that squatting (ass to the ground style) is more natural than sitting - when last did you chill in a squat position?

So if your goal was optimal health in the domain of movement, you would look at evolution and prescribe for yourself a daily movement routine that mimicked how hunter-gatherers moved & rested.

Similarly with diet if your goal was optimal health yes - you could look at evolution and make prescriptions.

But just in the way that for many people sitting all day is a price they're willing to pay, for others eating vegan is a price they're willing to pay. The ethics of eating meat is more important to them that what evolution is prescribing as most optimal.
 
Last edited:
Neuk_ said:
Animals die whether we eat them or not so the fact that they die is not evidence of cruelty.
Click to expand...
You'd need to also think that most factory farms or really any sort of industrial-scale meat farming isn't cruel on the life of an animal. Most people can't afford or get access to an omnivore diet consisting of grass-fed, free-roaming meat all the time so instead make the choice to just go vegan instead.
 
Neuk_ said:
Animals die whether we eat them or not so the fact that they die is not evidence of cruelty.
Click to expand...
So do humans. Should we eat humans too?

If we kill a human, is that not cruelty? Why is it not cruelty when it't an animal? It's your perception that you're somehow the "superior" animal that makes you think a non-human animal is less worthy of being alive.
 
TofuMofu said:
A lot less than intentionally eating meat...

Huge difference in intentionally killing something/someone and doing it unintentionally.
Click to expand...
So spraying poison to kill insects is not intentionally? Killing wild boar/pigs and other animals eating crops is not intentional?
 
Jean Claude Vaaldamme said:
So spraying poison to kill insects is not intentionally? Killing wild boar/pigs and other animals eating crops is not intentional?
Click to expand...
How much damage and killing happens when you consume animals?

So being vegan is far less damaging. Your whataboutism isn't going to make eating meat less cruel. It's cruel and not necessary.
 
TofuMofu said:
How much damage and killing happens when you consume animals?

So being vegan is far less damaging. Your whataboutism isn't going to make eating meat less cruel. It's cruel and not necessary.
Click to expand...
Actually far less. You kill animal and you eat that animal.
But poison kill everything nearby, also everything that eat the poisoned dead. Traps in the crops let animals die long painful deaths.
But I was not the one saying eating meat is less cruel. You claimed eating plants has no cruelty.
 
TofuMofu said:
How much damage and killing happens when you consume animals?

So being vegan is far less damaging. Your whataboutism isn't going to make eating meat less cruel. It's cruel and not necessary.
Click to expand...

I've seen arguments that farmlands and pesticides for crops, and all industries surrounding that, do far more damage to ecosystems and lead to more killing of animals than your typical cattle farm. Not sure if true or what stats exist to back it up, but do you know anything about this? (Sorry if discussed before)
 
TofuMofu said:
So do humans. Should we eat humans too?

If we kill a human, is that not cruelty? Why is it not cruelty when it't an animal? It's your perception that you're somehow the "superior" animal that makes you think a non-human animal is less worthy of being alive.
Click to expand...

It would come down to what is considered a species appropriate diet. And arguably, since controlling fire and cooking what we hunted was apparently one of the largest contributors to our rapid development (As far as I know), it stands to reason we thrive more on meat. This being an unfortunate fact, if true. We just have a moral boundary on cannibalism, I'm not sure if there's any biological concerns there.
 
Bobbin said:
I've seen arguments that farmlands and pesticides for crops, and all industries surrounding that, do far more damage to ecosystems and lead to more killing of animals than your typical cattle farm. Not sure if true or what stats exist to back it up, but do you know anything about this? (Sorry if discussed before)
Click to expand...
Most of the land and crops are used to feed animals. If there were less animals being farmed, less land and crops would need to be grown and thus less environmental damage is done.
 
saor said:
You'd need to also think that most factory farms or really any sort of industrial-scale meat farming isn't cruel on the life of an animal. Most people can't afford or get access to an omnivore diet consisting of grass-fed, free-roaming meat all the time so instead make the choice to just go vegan instead.
Click to expand...

Oh, sure, I have never argued that most if not all factory farming methods are cruel but as you elude to there are other supplies of meat which I don't believe are cruel. I was merely questioning why eating meat just about always is perceived as being cruel.
 
Bobbin said:
It would come down to what is considered a species appropriate diet. And arguably, since controlling fire and cooking what we hunted was apparently one of the largest contributors to our rapid development (As far as I know), it stands to reason we thrive more on meat. This being an unfortunate fact, if true. We just have a moral boundary on cannibalism, I'm not sure if there's any biological concerns there.
Click to expand...
I have a moral boundary on eating flesh. I say flesh because meat is a PC word used to disassociate from where it comes from.
 
saor said:
You'd need to also think that most factory farms or really any sort of industrial-scale meat farming isn't cruel on the life of an animal. Most people can't afford or get access to an omnivore diet consisting of grass-fed, free-roaming meat all the time so instead make the choice to just go vegan instead.
Click to expand...

Ironically, perhaps crops created this problem :) That scientist dude, name escapes me now, who invented cheap fertilizer and the global population basically skyrocketed after that?

Also ironically the same dude who apparently had a hand in mustard gas. (Ammonia, same same)

Touted as the guy who both killed and saved the most people in history if I recall correctly.

EDIT: Fritz Haber
 
Last edited:
TofuMofu said:
So do humans. Should we eat humans too?

If we kill a human, is that not cruelty? Why is it not cruelty when it't an animal? It's your perception that you're somehow the "superior" animal that makes you think a non-human animal is less worthy of being alive.
Click to expand...

I am not even sure how to answer your response, my point still stands, an animal dying is not automatically cruelty. I would extend that to humans as well, a friend switched off his wife's life support on Sunday as she was brain dead, just like he did with his 13 year old son four years, he is not cruel at all. It's fien if you don't want to kill animals for food but I disagree that an animal being killed for food is cruel, factory farming aside as I have stated before...
 
TofuMofu said:
I have a moral boundary on eating flesh. I say flesh because meat is a PC word used to disassociate from where it comes from.
Click to expand...

I have a hard enough time convincing people to put other people in the purview of their moral consideration. It's all relative you see. As for animals... we're a looooooooooooooooong way away from that debate as a species.
 
Neuk_ said:
I am not even sure how to answer your response, my point still stands, an animal dying is not automatically cruelty. I would extend that to humans as well, a friend switched off his wife's life support on Sunday as she was brain dead, just like he did with his 13 year old son four years, he is not cruel at all. It's fien if you don't want to kill animals for food but I disagree that an animal being killed for food is cruel, factory farming aside as I have stated before...
Click to expand...
If aliens came to earth and said: "We're going to harvest humans for food but the catch it that we'll give you decent lives then kill you as we need you". Would you consider that arrangement cruel or would you concede to the utility of humans as nourishment to the aliens?
 
saor said:
If aliens came to earth and said: "We're going to harvest humans for food but the catch it that we'll give you decent lives then kill you as we need you". Would you consider that arrangement cruel or would you concede to the utility of humans as nourishment to the aliens?
Click to expand...

I have already stated I am against factory farming...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X