CCMA / Labour Lawyer

Dolby said:
labour brokers
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That isnt really what a labour broker does though - you mean labour consultants or employer's associations reps (my job)

Brokers act more as suppliers of labour among their other services :)
 
Piesank said:
That isnt really what a labour broker does though - you mean labour consultants or employer's associations reps (my job)

Brokers act more as suppliers of labour among their other services :)
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You're right - edited :)
 
Dolby, The actions of this GM appears patently unjust, so much so, that I genuinely believe your fundamental rights are infringed. Usually, and unfortunately, we have a mindset in this country that because it's a employee/employer relationship we must either suck it up or resign and we don't have redress, or that redress is available only after-the-fact (unfair dismissal).

In your case it appears more than just a strict boss doing her job properly - on the face of it, it's pure harassment emanating from her ill-conceived agenda. Perhaps, and if you up to it, read this link and see if you believe you fall into that category of victim, and then consider the relief available, which is preventative rather than reactive. It's a long shot that obviously has many implications to consider. Ultimately, I do believe relief is available to you, albeit not in the mainstream form. I just wanted to make you cognisant of the article. Pretty interesting read nonetheless.

https://www.fsb.co.za/Departments/informationCenter/journals/Documents/2013/ContemporaryLabourLawApril.pdf

You come across as a responsible person and thus wouldn't act without careful consideration.
 
midnightcaller said:
People in leadership roles have several power bases to tap into.

You GM is using her position power. It's the weakest form of power.

She is most likely in a relationship where her partner is the dominant one. She probably comes to work and try to balance that dominance by using her position power to wield an axe around.

Just my 2 cents.
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Sounds like someone at work.
 
I just want to tear this company down mybb has the people to do it in a eye blink.
 
xeslaro said:
.
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Thanks - it's proving it which seems to be the issue. The law has LRA and with all these acts within to protect the employee from victimization and harassment. When I first mentioned my case, everyone screamed constructive dismissal and how easy it would be to take them for 6+ months.

But, I've since learnt it's very difficult to fight. Not impossible, but just a not a walk over to prove harassing, bullying, victimization or any charge. I've been through the appeals now so I know their angle :

On (expired) verbal warning for me not training staff - they will say I did not train ; I admitted to forgetting and I wasted the company time by having all the people sitting in the room waiting for me.

On the second, they will say they really gave an instruction (regardless of how) and I didn't carry it out.

On the third they'll say I didn't send the email out on time (fact). This caused embarrassment and delayed the strategic planning on their side.
 
Another update :

I laid a grievance against the GM with her boss, the MD. MD obviously sides with GM saying I should have had coffee with her and mend the relationship.

Long story short, we verbally agreed we would have an external mediator come and listen to see if there is a way forward. As always, they select their own labour consultants to hear us out.

My lawyer advised that because their own labour consultant has been incorrect and bias before, we can choose ccma to listen to us.

Now that HR has heard I prefer ccma and not their own, she says I can't do that because it's still internal process.

Anyone in the know can say I'm right or wrong? I'm not taking them to CCMA but rather having a real 3rd party listen
 
Everything on their terms. Seems the 'house' is stacking thEir side. The 'house' wins eventually.
 
Yea - going into another meeting with HR and witness shortly
 
Dolby said:
Another update :

I laid a grievance against the GM with her boss, the MD. MD obviously sides with GM saying I should have had coffee with her and mend the relationship.

Long story short, we verbally agreed we would have an external mediator come and listen to see if there is a way forward. As always, they select their own labour consultants to hear us out.

My lawyer advised that because their own labour consultant has been incorrect and bias before, we can choose ccma to listen to us.

Now that HR has heard I prefer ccma and not their own, she says I can't do that because it's still internal process.

Anyone in the know can say I'm right or wrong? I'm not taking them to CCMA but rather having a real 3rd party listen
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Surely if you are willing to pay for the external party it must be allowed?

Should the matter not be resolved then you have the right to refer to CCMA and for them to assist the parties.
 
akescpt said:
The Witness/friend of the gm
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Probably - she just mentioned witness.

Judgewarrick said:
Surely if you are willing to pay for the external party it must be allowed?

Should the matter not be resolved then you have the right to refer to CCMA and for them to assist the parties.
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Exactly.

This is before it's referred ; so effectively the same as what they want ie a 3rd party to hear each story out. I think they're upset as they have no control over a CCMA official
 
I think you shouldn't bother with external mediation and just go straight to the CCMA.

What is going to happen is that their friend the labour consultant is going to side with them. You will still be unhappy and approach the CCMA in any case. So why not just do it now?

Personally I wonder why they don't just give you an offer of paying you 3 months salary so you can go. As in, not be fired and they will give you a good reference, but you leave their employment with a bit of a package and you don't have to tell your new employer about the circumstances of your leaving the company.

Why? If I was the MD, I'd know that even you were right and the GM was wrong, you are now a poisonous member of the team. You'll be affecting the vibe and mood of the company. I'd rather that you go even if I had to pay you out.

If the GM is right and you were wrong, even more reason to want you out. I don't know if it would count as constructive dismissal - to me it would be a mutual agreement that we can't reconcile the relationship, so better to go our separate ways. You get some money and a good reference, they get rid of a troublesome employee, and everyone is happy.

I'm not saying you are a bad employee, I'm saying that in the context of your company and your bad relationship with your GM, you are a thorn in their side. Not about you as an employee but the relationship you have with your GM.
 
Ancalagon said:
I think you shouldn't bother with external mediation and just go straight to the CCMA.

What is going to happen is that their friend the labour consultant is going to side with them. You will still be unhappy and approach the CCMA in any case. So why not just do it now?

Personally I wonder why they don't just give you an offer of paying you 3 months salary so you can go. As in, not be fired and they will give you a good reference, but you leave their employment with a bit of a package and you don't have to tell your new employer about the circumstances of your leaving the company.

Why? If I was the MD, I'd know that even you were right and the GM was wrong, you are now a poisonous member of the team. You'll be affecting the vibe and mood of the company. I'd rather that you go even if I had to pay you out.

If the GM is right and you were wrong, even more reason to want you out. I don't know if it would count as constructive dismissal - to me it would be a mutual agreement that we can't reconcile the relationship, so better to go our separate ways. You get some money and a good reference, they get rid of a troublesome employee, and everyone is happy.

I'm not saying you are a bad employee, I'm saying that in the context of your company and your bad relationship with your GM, you are a thorn in their side. Not about you as an employee but the relationship you have with your GM.
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^^ This

Its weird that they have not tried to come to an agreement. The relationship is obviously deteriorated so how will this end for them ? HR nightmare or mutual agreement?

I don't like how they want to stretch this fight out. They either want to get rid of you and make a point of not paying you out or they really do want everyone to stay and are not sure how to make that happen.
Looks to me that the people who are affected by this (higher up) are being kept out of the loop and that is why there is so little direction.
 
I think management know about it and the support their GM. They've wanted her on-board for a year end they've fought to being her over.

She may also been not quite giving them the full story? Either way, they are aware of a 'troublesome employee'

Also not quite sure if their plan. This all got serious back in August and if they've simply paid then it'd been cheaper and easier than this.
 
How is the job hunt going outside of your current employer? Any possibilities yet? Will you hang on as long as you can at the current place while waiting for the 'right' job or will you take the first offer you get?\

Good luck with all of this. nothing sucks worse than sitting in a poisonous work environment for 40 odd hours a week :(
 
Dolby said:
Anyone in the know can say I'm right or wrong? I'm not taking them to CCMA but rather having a real 3rd party listen
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It still is a real 3rd party - their labour consultant isn't employed by your employer and charges them a fee for this service.

Ancalagon said:
I think you shouldn't bother with external mediation and just go straight to the CCMA.

What is going to happen is that their friend the labour consultant is going to side with them. You will still be unhappy and approach the CCMA in any case. So why not just do it now?
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OP is going for a constructive dismissal - he cannot prove that there was no recourse if the employer was willing to do a mediation and he ignored going there and instead went to the CCMA
 
mooks said:
How is the job hunt going outside of your current employer? Any possibilities yet? Will you hang on as long as you can at the current place while waiting for the 'right' job or will you take the first offer you get?\

Good luck with all of this. nothing sucks worse than sitting in a poisonous work environment for 40 odd hours a week :(
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I've started looking, but there aren't that many jobs out there and the time year isn't favorable. In addition, getting out of here for an interview is near impossible as they're watching me like a hawk.
 
Piesank said:
It still is a real 3rd party - their labour consultant isn't employed by your employer and charges them a fee for this service.
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Which is not a good thing as the consultant can be biased - if he'she delivers an unfavourable verdict, will the company re-use his/her services again?


Naaah, best to get somebody that will be totally impartial.
 
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