choosing not to vote

Serqet said:
So why should any of us bother to vote then? If it's corrupt and a foregone conclusion that this country is going to the dogs.
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It might be corrupt but nothing is a foregone conclusion unless you allow it to be. If corruption is such a problem to our country why are you not out there activley educating people on why its important that they vote smart? I try daily.

By not voting you are making it harder for those of us trying to fight corruption by allowing the ruling party to have that much extra power.

If you really cared about fighting corruption you would be. If you dont care about it you would be using it as an excuse not to vote.
 
Slootvreter said:
If I had a choice, I would have left. But it's not just a matter of packing a suitcase and getting on a plane.
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I had a friend who was hijacked in Johannesburg about 7 years ago.
The next day he booked a ticket to Australia and left. He returned once only to finalize some emigration stuff. I know a couple in Jhb whose house was broken into for the third time last year. Two weeks later they were on a plane to new zealand. If you can afford the tickets you can pack up and leave.
If you really want to leave you can take your time and organise it.
I'm getting tired of hearing this thing of how much i want to leave but I can't cause I have no choice. you always have choices, you choose to stay or you choose to go. I suspect for many people they realise life will be much harder for them if they leave, so they rather stay and bitch and moan about how much they want to leave... :rolleyes:
 
w1z4rd said:
It might be corrupt but nothing is a foregone conclusion unless you allow it to be. If corruption is such a problem to our country why are you not out there activley educating people on why its important that they vote smart? I try daily.

By not voting you are making it harder for those of us trying to fight corruption by allowing the ruling party to have that much extra power.

If you really cared about fighting corruption you would be. If you dont care about it you would be using it as an excuse not to vote.
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I know that is the point i was trying to make to Leetstone who said it was pointless to even vote.
 
Serqet said:
I know that is the point i was trying to make to Leetstone who said it was pointless to even vote.
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My bad.. Im an idiot and read it wrong. My apologies :o Then my response is pointed in Leetstones direction.
 
Slootvreter said:
Stop being an idiot. I never said I wasn't going to vote or my vote doesn't count. Pay attention. I say the argument of not having the right to complain if you didn't vote is bullsh1t.
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You have the right to complain, and anyone who says differently has missed the point.

You also have the right to piss into the wind and hope it makes a difference.

You have the right to do a lot of ridiculous things, if you want...
 
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Morgoth said:
+1 sweden rocks :P
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:sick:


joelus said:
I had a friend who was hijacked in Johannesburg about 7 years ago.
The next day he booked a ticket to Australia and left. He returned once only to finalize some emigration stuff. I know a couple in Jhb whose house was broken into for the third time last year. Two weeks later they were on a plane to new zealand. If you can afford the tickets you can pack up and leave.
If you really want to leave you can take your time and organise it.
I'm getting tired of hearing this thing of how much i want to leave but I can't cause I have no choice. you always have choices, you choose to stay or you choose to go. I suspect for many people they realise life will be much harder for them if they leave, so they rather stay and bitch and moan about how much they want to leave... :rolleyes:
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Yes it's as easy as buying a ticket and jumping on a plane. They're just going to let you in lol
 
Good Life said:
I will only ever vote if the ANC does not exist, which by the looks of it in the coming years, is never.
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I still dont understand why someone would do this.

I stand corrected on this, but doesn't it work something like this:

A party needs 100 000 votes to secure one seat in parliament.
If you dont vote, and that party gets 99 999 votes, you have effectively denied that party a seat in parliament ( excuse my poetic license here - for the sake of an example).

So now lets say that a meeting is held to discuss something important, and out of 10 MPs to discuss the matter at hand, the DA for example doesn't have a member to sit in, so the meeting is mainly held by ANC members.
In this case there isnt any opposition to the debate at hand, no outside eye watching that can report back and maybe inform media etc, or just simply offer an opposing view and sway the result.

So your ONE vote could have made an important difference.
 
joelus said:
If you really want to leave you can take your time and organise it.
I'm getting tired of hearing this thing of how much i want to leave but I can't cause I have no choice. you always have choices, you choose to stay or you choose to go. I suspect for many people they realise life will be much harder for them if they leave, so they rather stay and bitch and moan about how much they want to leave... :rolleyes:
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I've got a good job here, which I will NOT find anywhere else easily. Only reason I'm here.
 
w1z4rd said:
It might be corrupt but nothing is a foregone conclusion unless you allow it to be. If corruption is such a problem to our country why are you not out there activley educating people on why its important that they vote smart? I try daily.
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Educate? What's that? :rolleyes:
 
I also get tired of people saying how corrupt africa is, as if there is no corruption anywhere else. I mean, yes, africa IS generally corrupt, but so is America.

And while there may be less corruption in America, the scale is totally different. Take Jack Abramoff for example. In 2006 he was found guilty of corrupt practices and received a 10 year jail sentence for the $25million he received in kickbacks. 25 million dollars!!!
In the same year Randy Cunningham pleaded guilty to taking at least $2.4 million in bribes from defense contractors.
This makes JZ look like a total amateur when it comes to corruption, and those are only 2 'small' examples. Enron was a big example.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-01-03-abramoff-side_x.htm

Is not the american practice of 'lobbying' just formalized and legal corruption?
The only difference between a company lobbying and a company paying bribes is that there is a Lobbying Register with which companies can register. Don't register and you're paying bribes, register and you're lobbying.

A USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll taken Dec. 16-18 2006 found that 49% of American adults say they believe "most members of Congress are corrupt." That's 1 percentage point below the level of 1994, when voters turned control of Congress over to Republicans. The GOP appears to be tarred by scandal slightly more than the Democrats; 47% said "almost all" or "many" Republicans are corrupt, compared with 44% for Democrats.

So yes, South Africa is riddled with corruption. It is wrong and must be discouraged. Anyone found to be accepting bribes, including JZ, must face the consequences. But don't let's pretend it's an 'African' thing. It happens everywhere. It's no surprise that the poorer countries who have less will have more corruption, - after all the richer countries can pay bribes to poorer countries, not the other way around, but when corruption happens in richer countries, which it does all the time, the amounts involved are generally much much much higher.
 
Wino said:
So your ONE vote could have made an important difference.
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If the ANC was at least an honest party, then maybe i would agree with your statement. However, with Zuma at the helm they will do everything to jump responsibility, and they will do everything to win. The last 15 years has been an anc joke. They will never change. The only way south africa will become better is if the anc is removed from all facets of life in south africa.
 
You're right, joelus. It's not an African thing - greed is a human trait and can be found across the globe. The difference though, is that in developed countries there are repercussions for such actions.

And Africa's bad stigma with corruption comes in right about here.
 
Flanders said:
You're right, joelus. It's not an African thing - greed is a human trait and can be found across the globe. The difference though, is that in developed countries there are repercussions for such actions.

And Africa's bad stigma with corruption comes in right about here.
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I disagree. The very fact that JZ can be charged is indicative of a strong democracy.

In France, for example, Jacques Chirac has been named in several cases of alleged corruption and abuse, some of which have already led to felony convictions. Chirac, as a president of France, enjoys virtual immunity from prosecution for acts preceding his tenure as president following from a decision of the Constitutional Council on 22 January 1999.
This decision itself was highly controversial: the council was consulted on the treaty establishing the International Criminal Court, not about the status of the president with respect to the national criminal justice system. At the time, the president of the council was Roland Dumas, who later had to retire from his functions because of his implication in the Elf Aquitaine scandal. [1]
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_scandals_in_the_Paris_region

How about this one:
Thursday, February 12, 2009 -
Halliburton and Kellogg Brown & Root have agreed to pay $579 million in fines related to allegations of foreign bribery, the biggest fines ever paid by U.S. companies in a foreign corruption case, federal authorities and the companies said yesterday.
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/11/AR2009021103400.html
A report by the Congressional Research Service undermines Vice President Dick Cheney's denial of a continuing relationship with Halliburton Co., the energy company he once led, Sen. Frank Lautenberg said Thursday.
The report says a public official's unexercised stock options and deferred salary fall within the definition of "retained ties" to his former company."
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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/26/politics/main575356.shtml

I'm sure I could find many more examples if I had the time.

Not to mention that 'there are repercussions for such actions' only if you get caught.
 
joelus said:
Not to mention that 'there are repercussions for such actions' only if you get caught.
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Well, thanks for the eg's. Guess I can't argue with that but with regard to getting caught, look at Zim. Mugabe has been "caught" (not that he could give a damn about hiding anything) and we are yet to see repercussions in that part of the world - at least for him, anyway. I suppose one could argue that if Hitler had kept his business to within the borders of Germany, the world could've turned a blind eye. I personally think that its neighbours would have had more to say than those of Zim.
 
LeetStone said:
That danged up car stood at my folks place until December 2003 when these motherf*ckers stole it out their property, drivable or not, and thankfully my folks were relieved of the burden of it. I was still payin it off, I sent my folks the money every month or so.
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Lucky you... if your mother was outside... they would have stole her too
Those fockers steal anything... :D
 
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