choosing not to vote

If you don't want to vote for a specific party then vote for the biggest opposition part to balance power and let them check each other up.
 
Vegeta said:
Get your friend to vote for the ANC it has the same effect and atleast he's not a looser.
Old granny's have bigger balls than him, they stand in the sun in long cues to go vote.
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Agreed, because of the PR electoral system we use, and the dominance of the ANC, not voting is like voting for the ANC.

Your friend could spoil his ballot in protest; alternatively he could vote negatively- in other words, he doesn't vote for the party he likes best but rather views his vote as a vote against the party he hates most.
 
JK8 said:
If you dont vote, dont complain!
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Only those who don't vote have the right to complain.
Those who vote, don't complain when the outcome doesn't suite you, as you agreed to winner takes all rules when you voted
 
dappled said:
Agreed, because of the PR electoral system we use, and the dominance of the ANC, not voting is like voting for the ANC.

Your friend could spoil his ballot in protest; alternatively he could vote negatively- in other words, he doesn't vote for the party he likes best but rather views his vote as a vote against the party he hates most.
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I think the point is that it's the electoral system he doesn't want to be a part of, as he doesn't agree to the rules.
 
joelus said:
Only those who don't vote have the right to complain.
Those who vote, don't complain when the outcome doesn't suite you, as you agreed to winner takes all rules when you voted
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if you don't vote you have no right to complain about democracy, as you did not participate in it.
 
Not voting is the stupidest thing you can do (unless you are an ANC supporter - then sharp bru, tx)
 
Morgoth said:
if you dont vote you statistically vote for the ANC, simple as that =)
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Incorrect. Although statistically you may have improved the ANC's chance of winning (though I'm not convinced) not voting is not the same as voting a party in to represent you in a government you don't approve of.
 
dappled said:
Your friend could spoil his ballot in protest; alternatively he could vote negatively- in other words, he doesn't vote for the party he likes best but rather views his vote as a vote against the party he hates most.
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How is spoiling your vote different to not voting, in effect?

I know it's not what you mean, but I would love the ability to vote negatively, ie to vote -1 for a party and cancel out someone else's vote. I would be completely comfortable with a system like that.
 
joelus said:
Just out of interest, why is everyone so afraid of an ANC two thirds majority?
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I dont mind them getting 2/3 majority either... Why is everyone out to crit the poor ANC... screw you guys im voting for machine guns! :D
 
Morgoth said:
if you don't vote you have no right to complain about democracy, as you did not participate in it.
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um... thats exactly why you DO have right to complain and those who did participate don't.

Imagine I had a game where the rules are that 2 people in your neighbourhood get to have power over everyone else and can take your money and sleep with anyone they want in the neighbourhood. Everyone in the neighbourhood must vote for who these 2 people will be from a shortlist of 10.
Now if you all go ahead and vote, you can't complain when the guy comes to get your money and sleeps with your girlfriend cause you took part in the game by voting - you agreed to the rules.
Those who refused to vote, said it's a stupid game and no one can do that, DO have a right to complain when the person voted in comes to take your money. You have the right cause you didn't agree to rules and want nothing to do with it.
 
joelus said:
Only those who don't vote have the right to complain.
Those who vote, don't complain when the outcome doesn't suite you, as you agreed to winner takes all rules when you voted
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Thats just stupid, but even stupid people are allowed to vote.
Just go vote!! No harm done. Choose someone and make your mark even if the outcome doesnt suit you or it was a waste of your time. You have a right to question things in the country good or bad.

Its like entering a competition, theres no guarantee you going to win, but atleast you entered and stand a 1 in a million chance of winning.
 
joelus said:
Incorrect. Although statistically you may have improved the ANC's chance of winning (though I'm not convinced) not voting is not the same as voting a party in to represent you in a government you don't approve of.
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improve their chance = vote for them =)

"There are 3 type of lies, lies dammed lies and statistics" - Mark Twain
 
joelus said:
Just out of interest, why is everyone so afraid of an ANC two thirds majority?
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I'm afraid of any party having the ability to change our constitution without requiring any other party's support. The fact that it's the ANC who may find themselves in this position is coincidental. I'd be telling you to vote against the DA or COPE if they were in the ANC's current position.
 
joelus said:
He said that if he doesn't vote then he can't be held responsible when the government of the day, whoever it is, messes up, cause he didn't take part in the system he doesn't approve of it. Once you vote, you have no more right to complain since by voting you are agreeing to the rules and are agreeing to live by the outcome of the elections whatever it is. If you vote DA and the ANC wins a majority you have to accept that as being fair and accept the ANC led government as representing the will of the people.
Only those who don't give their consent to the election (by not voting) have a right to complain about the outcome, especially since they will still be paying taxes to whoever wins. I guess he feels disillusioned with the system, and doesn't want to be 'represented' by politicians he doesn't trust and doesn't believe in.

(I'm arguing on his behalf here to play devils advocate, but we did have quite a long discussion about it)
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Fair enough. I do not really believe you can complain about something until you have tried it. If your friend is so annoyed by the lack of policies that fit his agenda than as suggested perhaps your friend should reserve that for a more constructive purpose like starting a political party which is the alternative option.

I think he just doesn't want to get involved or is going against the grain to be do simply that. Go against the grain, which I guess works for some people.

One thing I think we can all agree, a vote in our country counts a lot more than we tend to take it for. Not voting is a waste of an opportunity where you could make a difference.
 
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joelus said:
Imagine I had a game where the rules are that 2 people in your neighbourhood get to have power over everyone else and can take your money and sleep with anyone they want in the neighbourhood. Everyone in the neighbourhood must vote for who these 2 people will be from a shortlist of 10.

Now if you all go ahead and vote, you can't complain when the guy comes to get your money and sleeps with your girlfriend cause you took part in the game by voting - you agreed to the rules.
Those who refused to vote, said it's a stupid game and no one can do that, DO have a right to complain when the person voted in comes to take your money. You have the right cause you didn't agree to rules and want nothing to do with it.
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The majority would have had to put those 2 individuals in power so your numbers are off.

More than likely everyone would elect each other to be leaders and a vote would occur where everyone would vote for themselves unless of course there were some real idiots.

What you have described is not a democracy and most certainly not a clear definition or analogy of democracy.

Democracy is 1 wolf and 3 sheep deciding what's for dinner. Someone is going to get angry.
 
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