choosing not to vote

joelus said:
Incorrect. Although statistically you may have improved the ANC's chance of winning (though I'm not convinced) not voting is not the same as voting a party in to represent you in a government you don't approve of.
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Mathematical proof that not voting favours the ANC more than any other party:


does vote
A) 10 000 000 voters
ANC: 6 000 000 = 60%
DA: 1 500 000 = 15%
COPE: 1 500 000 = 15%
IFP: 350 000 = 3,5%
FF: 250 000 = 2,5%
ID: 200 000 = 2%
rest: 200 000 = 2%

does not vote
B) 9 999 999 voters
ANC: 6 000 000 = 60.000006000000600000060000006%
DA: 1 500 000 = 15.0000015000001500000150000015%
COPE: 1 499 999 = 14.9999914999991499999149999915%
IFP: 350 000 = 3.50000035000003500000350000035%
FF: 250 000 = 2.50000025000002500000250000025%
ID: 200 000 = 2.0000002000000200000020000002%
rest: 200 000 = 2.0000002000000200000020000002%

(B) - (A) = the difference

In scenario B, except for Cope, the parties receive slightly more of the vote:
1) ANC: 0.000006000000600000060000006% more
2) DA: 0.0000015000001500000150000015% more
3) COPE: 0.0000085000008500000850000085% less
4) IFP: 0.00000035000003500000350000035% more
5) FF: 0.00000025000002500000250000025% more
6) ID: 0.0000002000000200000020000002% more
rest: 0.0000002000000200000020000002% more

The number of votes the ANC gets stays the same, but the proportion of votes the ANC gets is higher.

ANC gains 0.000006000000600000060000006%
DA gains 0.0000015000001500000150000015%

The ANC's proportion gain in scenario B is higher than all the other parties' proportion gain. It is from the total proportion of votes that the 400 parliament seats are allocated.

{eg: ANC's gain - DA's gain
0.000006000000600000060000006% - 0.0000015000001500000150000015% = ANC receives 0.0000045000004500000450000045% more than the DA}
 
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It's not really a popularity contest even though it seems that way. I wouldn't say i like any of the people running for election. But i do think there are people who are more capable than others. For example Zille or Lekota would certainly in my eyes do a better job than Zuma. It's a no brainer for me.
 
joelus said:
The mechanics of the system is irrelevant, what system it is is irrelevant. What's relevant is that by agreeing to the rules of a system, any system, you are approving the outcome and consequences of that system, whatever they may be.

If you decide to vote for the DA and the ANC still gets a two thirds majority, you can't then complain if they decide to change the constitution. By voting for the DA you agreed to the rules that say whoever wins the most votes wins the election and any party who gets a two thirds majority is allowed to change the constitution. You agreed to that. If you didn't like the rules then why agree to play?
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Your friends understanding of the rules are flawed. You agree to the rules when you become a citizen; and the only way to change the rules is to follow the current rules, i.e vote.....
 
chiskop said:
rofl.

So exactly which one of those guys would you like to legitimise? Stirring defence of Hitler, "not so bad".
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If it came to that yes. I'd go with the option which would cost the least lives.

You on the other hand would cop out. Pity those that lose their lives. But hey at least you're not legitimizing one of them. Your conscience takes precedence over their lives
 
chiskop said:
How is spoiling your vote different to not voting, in effect?
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There is no difference in effect.

The total number of spoiled ballots, when used in comparison with the total number of spoiled ballots from another election, are however used as an indicator of dissatisfaction with the electoral system. The changes can be tracked from election to election, but there is no baseline comparison with reality (as who knows how many dissatisfied people a spoiled ballot represents in reality? How many dissatisfied voters register their dissatifaction by just not voting at all?)
 
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Morgoth said:
improve their chance = vote for them =)

"There are 3 type of lies, lies dammed lies and statistics" - Mark Twain
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Your quote is not relevant. Statistics has little to do with it. Not voting increases their power mathematically.
 
joelus said:
The mechanics of the system is irrelevant, what system it is is irrelevant. What's relevant is that by agreeing to the rules of a system, any system, you are approving the outcome and consequences of that system, whatever they may be.

If you decide to vote for the DA and the ANC still gets a two thirds majority, you can't then complain if they decide to change the constitution. By voting for the DA you agreed to the rules that say whoever wins the most votes wins the election and any party who gets a two thirds majority is allowed to change the constitution. You agreed to that. If you didn't like the rules then why agree to play?
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Politics isn't a game.
 
Picard said:
I right implies that it is right for you to choose to not vote. I say it's wrong.
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If you vote and later you find it was a mistake... thats fine... at least you had an opinion and can talk about it with your friends ;)
Whats worse is that if you didn't vote... you don't have the right to talk about it to ANYONE for the next 5 Years... since you didn't care :mad:

Better do something to change something ... where nothing obviously changes nothing :eek:
 
TonyHawk said:
If you vote and later you find it was a mistake... thats fine... at least you had an opinion and can talk about it with your friends ;)
Whats worse is that if you didn't vote... you don't have the right to talk about it to ANYONE for the next 5 Years... since you didn't care :mad:

Better do something to change something ... where nothing obviously changes nothing :eek:
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Why did you quote me?
 
joelus said:
You're missing the point. That wasn't supposed to be an analogy of democracy, it's supposed to demonstrate that if there is a system with rules and you choose to take part in it then you have no right to complain if things don't turn out the way you would have liked.
If that system is a so-called democratic voting system or a silly neighbourhood game is irrelevant - by taking part you are agreeing to the rules and must accept the outcome whatever it may be - you have no right to complain.

If you choose to not take part in the system - whether it's choosing not to vote in a so-called democratic election, or choosing not to play a silly neighbourhood game, you have every right to complain if the people you didn't vote into power have a negative effect on your life. Remember, even if the party you vote for doesn't make it into power, you still allowed the winning party in, just by taking part and agreeing to the rules.
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Your logic is horribly flawed. You live with the rules every day, not just that one day of voting. You are a part of the system whether you roll the dice or forfeit your turn.
 
Picard said:
Why did you quote me?
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It was an error somehow... It was meant for "joelus"
I totally agree with your statement... apologies

joelus said:
:D Well, it is a friend who is not going to vote, but he and I (and everyone else) have the same rights. So while I will most likely be voting for cope, though I'm still not sure, I still have the right to not vote just like he does!
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TonyHawk said:
If you vote and later you find it was a mistake... thats fine... at least you had an opinion and can talk about it with your friends ;)
Whats worse is that if you didn't vote... you don't have the right to talk about it to ANYONE for the next 5 Years... since you didn't care :mad:Better do something to change something ... where nothing obviously changes nothing :eek:
Click to expand...
 
Its a shame the novelty of a right to vote (like 1994) has worn off for so many people...
... but then again if I was waiting for so many years for that right ...
... then voted for the ANC and all its promises... and got corruption instead !!!

I guess most people will just give up :confused: ... pity
 
Evil prevails when good men do nothing

Edmund Burke
 
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