choosing not to vote

A non vote is just as legitimate as a vote. Like it or not.
 
A political party has no other purpose than to perpetuate itself. Why give legitimacy to idiots and charlatans whose only ambition in life is to be politicians? In my opinion the only good politican is drawn and quartered one. :rolleyes:

To those of you that get harassed by friends who don't agree that all politicians are corrupt morons - here are some options:
1. Write in vote - Mickey Mouse, Bruce Banner, "Non of the above", Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho, etc
2. Vote for everyone - twice
3. Vote for a bit party - KISS seems to the only one left unfortunately...
 
Picard said:
I believe you must choose the lesser of the evils.

Say a country has 10 voters and 2 parties. 8 People vote for the one and 2 for the other. That's 80% of the seats in parliament for the big party and 20% for the small party.

Say one voter that would have voted for the smaller party decides not to vote.

Now 9 people would have voted. 8 votes for the big party and 1 vote for the small party. But now the big party gets 89% of the seats in parliament and the small one just 11%.

That one idiot didn't just take away from the small party, he also gave a vote to the big party.
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I agree 100%! By not voting you're giving a vote to the ANC.
 
joelus said:
I guess it just reflects his ambivalence towards the whole thing. To him it makes no difference if the crooks are ANC dominated, DA dominated or a mixture of the two, no one wins anything except the politicians...



He said that if he doesn't vote then he can't be held responsible when the government of the day, whoever it is, messes up, cause he didn't take part in the system he doesn't approve of it. Once you vote, you have no more right to complain since by voting you are agreeing to the rules and are agreeing to live by the outcome of the elections whatever it is. If you vote DA and the ANC wins a majority you have to accept that as being fair and accept the ANC led government as representing the will of the people.
Only those who don't give their consent to the election (by not voting) have a right to complain about the outcome, especially since they will still be paying taxes to whoever wins. I guess he feels disillusioned with the system, and doesn't want to be 'represented' by politicians he doesn't trust and doesn't believe in.

(I'm arguing on his behalf here to play devils advocate, but we did have quite a long discussion about it)
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Okay, Mr. Advocate, representing one Mr. L. U. Cifer. If the ANC gets 2/3 majority due to voter apathy they will automatically be given the keys to the country. We vote against the ANC to prevent this in the interests of democracy. By not voting you will be giving them this opportunity and, having made no attempt to fight back, will essentially would have made your own bed.

My opinion is go out there and vote for any opposition party, whether you agree with 0% of their policies, as your vote will be a vote for democracy. A democracy can not function effectively when the ruling party has no accountability - if the ANC gain 2/3 majority this will be the scenario. Accountability, no matter where it comes from will keep the government in line and ultimately become the tool of the people.

So a vote against the ANC is a vote for a better democracy tomorrow (yes, even one ruled by the ANC).
 
LeetStone said:
Some interesting points here in this topic:

The trouble is, friend, that the ANC pretty much does what it pleases, regardless of the rule of law or anything else that stands in its way.

The ANC will:
- never be honest
- never be accountable
- never be a tool to the people

Any vote against the ANC is a mathematical percentage, which is the same as shooting a BB gun against a freight train moving at 90 miles an hour. Either way you're screwed man.

It is often said, and I recall this from the '99 election where I proudly refrained from voting, that if I don't vote I can't complain. Well that, remains a totally bullsh*t argument, a product of people who are deluded into thinking that somehow a single vote, probably having a 1.15 x 10-9 effect on the total outcome, will somehow make a difference. Get real guys, the ANC are here to stay, and if you really want to make a difference, your options are:

- start a civil war and get them out
- create a coup
- leave SA and write it off as a bad experience
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How can you not understand the implications of your actions? A 2/3 majority virtually gives this country away to the ANC; your rights could become trampled up and a hell-hole could be born.

One vote does make a difference when combined with the millions of other votes of people opposed to this scenario. Imagine if 7 million people had this same idea, and those happen to be all the votes the opposition gains; ultimately the ANC has 100% of the vote.

Its frustrating that you don't understand this concept. Your solutions are nihilistic; especially considering you are not represented in this country. I find your decision irresponsible and your conclusions against everything this country should stand for - you, my friend, are no better than the ANC leadership.
 
timgaul said:
How can you not understand the implications of your actions? A 2/3 majority virtually gives this country away to the ANC; your rights could become trampled up and a hell-hole could be born.
Click to expand...
The ANC has already had a 2/3 majority for the last 10 years and they haven't changed the constitution (which they created), so I don't know why you're so afraid. I agree it's not a good thing for them to have a 2/3 majority, but this "hell hole scenario" is just opposition party fear mongering imo.
 
LeetStone said:
...people who are deluded into thinking that somehow a single vote, probably having a 1.15 x 10-9 effect on the total outcome, will somehow make a difference.
Click to expand...

Catch 22:
[Major Major] "But suppose everybody on our side felt that way."

[Yossarian] "Then I'd certainly be a damned fool to feel any other way. Wouldn't I?"​
 
chiskop said:
There have been (off the top of my head) 15 - 20 constitutional amendments.

Edit: Constitutional amendments
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There have been 15 amendments, none of which threaten the rights of south africans... for example:

amendment 14 and 15 removes floor crossing so members of parliament can't change parties anymore and keep their seats

amendment 12 and 13 changes the geographical areas of certain provinces

terrifying isn't it...
 
joelus, ever heard of gerrymandering? Yes that is scary. It's like Julius Malema telling students to go register and vote in the western cape even if they don't live there.
As for floor crossing, we have seen every major political party take both (opposing) sides at some stage or another on that question (ANC against, then for; DA against, then for, then against etc). Really is not the kind of thing that should be written into the constitution.
 
joelus said:
There have been 15 amendments, none of which threaten the rights of south africans... for example:

amendment 14 and 15 removes floor crossing so members of parliament can't change parties anymore and keep their seats

amendment 12 and 13 changes the geographical areas of certain provinces

terrifying isn't it...
Click to expand...

I think that the people of Khutsong would disagree with you about what threatens their rights (As would certain politicians, who are South Africans too).

In any case you said there hadn't been any amendments, which is just not true.
 
joelus said:
The ANC has already had a 2/3 majority for the last 10 years and they haven't changed the constitution (which they created), so I don't know why you're so afraid. I agree it's not a good thing for them to have a 2/3 majority, but this "hell hole scenario" is just opposition party fear mongering imo.
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I guess the difference with this election is the Zuma factor. I can't recall any other election where the likely winner has been in a position where they might end up in jail before finishing their first year as president. Unlike his predecessors, Zuma may have strong incentives to make the wrong kind of constitutional ammendments.
 
dappled said:
joelus, ever heard of gerrymandering? Yes that is scary. It's like Julius Malema telling students to go register and vote in the western cape even if they don't live there.
As for floor crossing, we have seen every major political party take both (opposing) sides at some stage or another on that question (ANC against, then for; DA against, then for, then against etc). Really is not the kind of thing that should be written into the constitution.
Click to expand...

I'd never heard of gerrymandering, so I learnt something new today!
 
joelus said:
The ANC has already had a 2/3 majority for the last 10 years and they haven't changed the constitution (which they created), so I don't know why you're so afraid. I agree it's not a good thing for them to have a 2/3 majority, but this "hell hole scenario" is just opposition party fear mongering imo.
Click to expand...

It's not just the constitution that's in danger. The ANC uses their 2/3 majority to push through things like the Anti-Scorpions Bill.
 
LeetStone said:
none of which yet threatens the rights of citizens.

Call that "testing the waters", after the election we will see what happens here.
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Why? They've had a 2/3 majority for 10 years, why should something happen after this election specifically?
Besides, all polls show that the ANC will lose it's 2/3 majority this time around...
 
LeetStone said:
And then you think a vote against this is somehow going to make a difference, even if it is 7 million votes in all?
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What exactly is your point here leetstone? To tell us we're all doomed? To do anything constructive whatsoever, or just to gloat because you're out of africa and it's no longer your problem? Sorry I just would like to understand your point. You must have a reason for trying to help the ANC as you are.
 
joelus said:
The ANC has already had a 2/3 majority for the last 10 years and they haven't changed the constitution (which they created), so I don't know why you're so afraid. I agree it's not a good thing for them to have a 2/3 majority, but this "hell hole scenario" is just opposition party fear mongering imo.
Click to expand...

ANC Election results
94 = 63 %
99 = 66,35 %
04 = 69,69 %

2/3 rds is 67% needed... which they fell just short of ... in 94 & 99 ... where do you get 10 years
2ndly... talk about what you know to be fact dumb ass (imo)... they were part of assembling the constitution... as there were many parties involved

Any changes so far to the constitution before 2004 has had to be passed with support from any other political party
And they would have changed more... had the ANC not been too busy trying to fix all their K*K.... IMO... ;)
 
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