So where are you living now LeeStone? A place where there is no corruption like say Denmark? Or a place where corruption is normal and sometimes institutionalized and legal like the USA? Just wondering...
-
Join the MyBroadband community
South Africa’s biggest forum. Discuss, discover, and connect with thousands of members.
-
Question of the Day: How do you normally pay for purchases in stores?
choosing not to vote
- Thread starter Sherbang
- Start date
TonyHawk
Expert Member
Take 2x50cm pipes... weld them together.. do a McGyver... fit 2 shot gun rounds... 1 for warning... other for the bugger (if needed)....who needs a licence ?
ANC Election results
94 = 63 %
99 = 66,35 %
04 = 69,69 %
2/3 rds is 67% needed... which they fell just short of ... in 94 & 99 ... where do you get 10 years
2ndly... talk about what you know to be fact dumb ass (imo)... they were part of assembling the constitution... as there were many parties involved
Any changes so far to the constitution before 2004 has had to be passed with support from any other political party
And they would have changed more... had the ANC not been too busy trying to fix all their K*K.... IMO...
Sorry, my mistake, I included the 66,35%. If I remember correctly, in 2002 around 80% of the National Party members crossed to the ANC, giving them the 2/3 majority.
TonyHawk
Expert Member
? hahaTonyHawk
Expert Member
You are basically right about crime all over but I hope the flusher don't happen
Don't worry... ours is no more rigged than the USA... they set up who wins every time... IMO
ingeon
Senior Member
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2008
- Messages
- 752
- Reaction score
- 4
http://orangecow.org/pythonet/sketches/election.htm
Still classic! And still think each vote counts.
Okay. Found this article and i know it`s a mile long but here goes.
-----
Almost exactly 15 years ago, Nelson Mandela took the oath of office as President of the Republic of South Africa and our country immediately became the world's most shining example of a constitutional democracy at its best.
We smiled, walked tall and generally looked down our noses at far less perfect democracies like the USA, UK, and Europe.
Today, we are not the world's best example of a constitutional democracy. If anything, the only sort of democracy we can lay claim to is a Selective Democracy, which is probably the worst kind of democracy there is.
Selective Democracy is so bad that it's actually almost better to come right out and admit to being a one party dictatorship of a country in which the favourite national pass time is social one-upmanship.
You know you live in a Selective Democracy when:
Politicians vociferously commit themselves to upholding the independence of the judiciary until a judgement goes against them and then they publicly say that all judges are racist idiots.
When politicians who fought for decades against the iniquities of apartheid and struggled for human rights, ban someone like the Dalai Lama just because his presence in this country might annoy China.
When politicians are seen to uphold the rule of law by watching as their friends go to jail for fraud, then use their clout to set them free on all sorts of flimsy grounds before they have spent more than a couple of minutes in a cell.
When politicians are found guilty of a crime and their political party carries them shoulder-high to the gates of the prison while behaving as though the guilty party had just scored the winning goal in a World Cup final.
When political party youth leagues rant and rave about their democratic right to go and address crowd in opposition strongholds and then talk about killing anyone who doesn't agree with their leader.
When politicians create a special task team to combat crime and then disband it when they find it targeting them.
When it takes prosecutors five minutes to stick a shoplifter in jail and almost ten years to get to first base in a legal action against a high profile politician in spite of claiming for years and years that they have cast-iron evidence of his guilt.
When a bunch of politicians appoint a board of directors to the national broadcaster and within a few months those same politicians want to fire them due to a sudden apparent lack of confidence, but actually because those politicians now have a new boss who doesn't like the old boss and therefore doesn't like the board of the national broadcaster not because they have suddenly become bad people. Then, when they can't fire them they just make up a new law to let them do it.
When the most visible result of a decade and a half of affirmative action and black economic empowerment is 500 exceedingly rich fatcats and just as many unemployed as there were before.
Now, because of these fine examples set by politicians, the whole country is getting in on the Selective Democracy act.
Ordinary
To ordinary people, Selective Democracy means:
If you are poor you are entitled to steal electricity even if this kills your neighbours.
If you are poor you can steal just about anything because your are entitled to. Even steal from other poor people.
If you are homeless, you can just move into houses in spite of some equally poor people being on the list ahead of you.
Driving unroadworthy taxis like manic madmen, causing accidents and killing passengers right left and centre just because you feel entitled to.
Disrupt traffic, destroy property and assault innocent passers-by just because government wants to introduce a better bus service. Selective Democracy to the taxi industry means competition only works when they are competing against poor bus and rail services and absolutely not the other way round.
Driving your new BMW at 200kph on a freeway while at the same time changing lanes without indicating and chatting away on your cell phone because you have spent R500 000 on your Beemer and feel entitled to get your money's worth out of it.
Selective Democracy means being able to drive any car at any speed and any old how no matter how dangerously because if the taxi drivers can get away with it then why shouldn't you.
Selective Democracy means you can beat another motorist to death with a hockey stick for cutting you off, but at the same time feeling entitled to give the finger to and/or shoot anyone who has the nerve to hoot at you when you cut them off.
It also means that if you run a business where a lot of cash is involved, paying tax is optional. And if you opt not to, you can still bitch like hell when your rubbish isn't collected or a pothole in the road isn't fixed within minutes of appearing.
If you run a big business and a senior executive rips you off, you can give him a golden handshake, ask him to resign and then promise not to say anything if he doesn't, and then sweep it all under the carpet. You don't have to lay a charge of theft even though the law insists you must, because you don't want to damage the image of the company with controversy. Then, you complain at dinner parties about politicians flouting the rule of law.
The list of examples of Selective Democracy goes on and on and, let's face it, not only politicians and businessmen, but a huge number of ordinary folk who are guilty, even in some small way, of manipulating democracy to suit themselves.
But, who is to blame? Who the heck started it all?
Well, there is only one answer to that. It starts by the people who lead us. Politicians and businessmen.
The examples they set by being so patently selective in the way they either vociferously uphold democracy or simply ignore it when it suits them can't help but have an impact on society.
It is the start of a process that has more and more ordinary law abiding people thinking: "Well, if they can do it, why can't I."
-----
Not voting is a state of passivity. Passivity is a lack of initiative
Still classic! And still think each vote counts.
Okay. Found this article and i know it`s a mile long but here goes.
-----
Almost exactly 15 years ago, Nelson Mandela took the oath of office as President of the Republic of South Africa and our country immediately became the world's most shining example of a constitutional democracy at its best.
We smiled, walked tall and generally looked down our noses at far less perfect democracies like the USA, UK, and Europe.
Today, we are not the world's best example of a constitutional democracy. If anything, the only sort of democracy we can lay claim to is a Selective Democracy, which is probably the worst kind of democracy there is.
Selective Democracy is so bad that it's actually almost better to come right out and admit to being a one party dictatorship of a country in which the favourite national pass time is social one-upmanship.
You know you live in a Selective Democracy when:
Politicians vociferously commit themselves to upholding the independence of the judiciary until a judgement goes against them and then they publicly say that all judges are racist idiots.
When politicians who fought for decades against the iniquities of apartheid and struggled for human rights, ban someone like the Dalai Lama just because his presence in this country might annoy China.
When politicians are seen to uphold the rule of law by watching as their friends go to jail for fraud, then use their clout to set them free on all sorts of flimsy grounds before they have spent more than a couple of minutes in a cell.
When politicians are found guilty of a crime and their political party carries them shoulder-high to the gates of the prison while behaving as though the guilty party had just scored the winning goal in a World Cup final.
When political party youth leagues rant and rave about their democratic right to go and address crowd in opposition strongholds and then talk about killing anyone who doesn't agree with their leader.
When politicians create a special task team to combat crime and then disband it when they find it targeting them.
When it takes prosecutors five minutes to stick a shoplifter in jail and almost ten years to get to first base in a legal action against a high profile politician in spite of claiming for years and years that they have cast-iron evidence of his guilt.
When a bunch of politicians appoint a board of directors to the national broadcaster and within a few months those same politicians want to fire them due to a sudden apparent lack of confidence, but actually because those politicians now have a new boss who doesn't like the old boss and therefore doesn't like the board of the national broadcaster not because they have suddenly become bad people. Then, when they can't fire them they just make up a new law to let them do it.
When the most visible result of a decade and a half of affirmative action and black economic empowerment is 500 exceedingly rich fatcats and just as many unemployed as there were before.
Now, because of these fine examples set by politicians, the whole country is getting in on the Selective Democracy act.
Ordinary
To ordinary people, Selective Democracy means:
If you are poor you are entitled to steal electricity even if this kills your neighbours.
If you are poor you can steal just about anything because your are entitled to. Even steal from other poor people.
If you are homeless, you can just move into houses in spite of some equally poor people being on the list ahead of you.
Driving unroadworthy taxis like manic madmen, causing accidents and killing passengers right left and centre just because you feel entitled to.
Disrupt traffic, destroy property and assault innocent passers-by just because government wants to introduce a better bus service. Selective Democracy to the taxi industry means competition only works when they are competing against poor bus and rail services and absolutely not the other way round.
Driving your new BMW at 200kph on a freeway while at the same time changing lanes without indicating and chatting away on your cell phone because you have spent R500 000 on your Beemer and feel entitled to get your money's worth out of it.
Selective Democracy means being able to drive any car at any speed and any old how no matter how dangerously because if the taxi drivers can get away with it then why shouldn't you.
Selective Democracy means you can beat another motorist to death with a hockey stick for cutting you off, but at the same time feeling entitled to give the finger to and/or shoot anyone who has the nerve to hoot at you when you cut them off.
It also means that if you run a business where a lot of cash is involved, paying tax is optional. And if you opt not to, you can still bitch like hell when your rubbish isn't collected or a pothole in the road isn't fixed within minutes of appearing.
If you run a big business and a senior executive rips you off, you can give him a golden handshake, ask him to resign and then promise not to say anything if he doesn't, and then sweep it all under the carpet. You don't have to lay a charge of theft even though the law insists you must, because you don't want to damage the image of the company with controversy. Then, you complain at dinner parties about politicians flouting the rule of law.
The list of examples of Selective Democracy goes on and on and, let's face it, not only politicians and businessmen, but a huge number of ordinary folk who are guilty, even in some small way, of manipulating democracy to suit themselves.
But, who is to blame? Who the heck started it all?
Well, there is only one answer to that. It starts by the people who lead us. Politicians and businessmen.
The examples they set by being so patently selective in the way they either vociferously uphold democracy or simply ignore it when it suits them can't help but have an impact on society.
It is the start of a process that has more and more ordinary law abiding people thinking: "Well, if they can do it, why can't I."
-----
Not voting is a state of passivity. Passivity is a lack of initiative
Last edited:
Kloofvreter
Honorary Master
...........
semiautomatix
Honorary Master
You lack of concern for this country (even when you weren't disenfranchised) is not better than many leaders of the ruling party. You're only there to benefit yourself and clearly have no concern for the general population. Well done, you must be proud.
semiautomatix
Honorary Master
They've never had a "criminal" in charge before. This whole Scorpions thing, which was for the most part unconstitutional, was forced through with scant regard for the will of the people. It is but the tip of the iceberg.
semiautomatix
Honorary Master
You are clearly a lost cause: strength in numbers. If you can't understand how each and every vote is important then you do not understand democracy.
Go live in China, you can get your wish.
semiautomatix
Honorary Master
Very philanthropic of you. I'm sure that the karma fairy will come back to bit you on the ass.
Well, since you no longer live here, your concern for the SA population need only be minimal. However you cannot isolate yourself and your family from the rest of the world and live in a bubble.
Nobody is secure until everybody is secure.
Being concerned about creating a stable environment (local and global) for your family will go a long way towards protecting your family and ensuring their future happiness.
Flanders
Honorary Master
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2003
- Messages
- 19,356
- Reaction score
- 16,292
Agree 200%.
If you are unsure, then just do it. There is nothing to lose as we are not in a situation where another party could achieve 2/3rds. Any other approach is simply one of negative pessimism or a healthy dose of careless irresponsbility.
semiautomatix
Honorary Master
You don't believe in voting, you'll be right at home.
Ladies and gentlemen! Start your tinfoil hats, the conspiracy train is now boarding at gate 11. There has never been evidence of an this kind of thing in South Africa; your arguments are getting more and more manic and less and less sensical.
By the ways its "turns a blind eye" not "throws a deaf ear", thats a mixed metaphor if I ever needed an example.
semiautomatix
Honorary Master
Except this isn't a Turkish forum; now are we conversing with Turks. FAIL.
For someone who doesn't live here, nor cares about this country you have a lots of opinions. Go bother someone in the country you live in because we don't need folk like you around.
semiautomatix
Honorary Master
You can't vote, so who gives a damn. Go hide in the midwest and wait it out. At least many expats are still supportive and expressive about South Africa, you're giving these people a bad name.
semiautomatix
Honorary Master
Says the man who lives in the Bush's back garden. Isn't Florida somewhere along the Gulf, as well? Its only a matter of time till you're arrested under the Patriot Act, then we'll see who has their "freedom". Ah, giving up civil liberties, the American "dream".
Pot... kettle... black.
semiautomatix
Honorary Master
Just out of interest, Mr. USA, I lived in Britain for many many years and chose to come back of my own accord, to a truly free and beautiful country that I missed terribly.
Flanders
Honorary Master
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2003
- Messages
- 19,356
- Reaction score
- 16,292
LeetStone, I said in the rigging thread that I believe undoubtedly that they would rig it if one of two things happened:
-if they narrowly missed the majority percentage (not going to happen I know, but hypothetically speaking)
-if they narrowly missed the 2/3rds majority precentage.
The thing is, what would you like us to do? Nothing? Go hide under a rock?
-if they narrowly missed the majority percentage (not going to happen I know, but hypothetically speaking)
-if they narrowly missed the 2/3rds majority precentage.
The thing is, what would you like us to do? Nothing? Go hide under a rock?