choosing not to vote

[marine1]

Get your friend to vote for the ANC it has the same effect and atleast he's not a looser.
Old granny's have bigger balls than him, they stand in the sun in long cues to go vote.

You are right !!

It is anyone's right not to vote as it is my right to vote for anyone in the elections.

I disagree, it should be law that you have to vote.

If you dont vote, dont complain!

exactly.

 

[subculture]

I disagree, it should be law that you have to vote.

Then comes the interesting question, is it a democracy? It is about building a country one can be proud of. If someone is not proud they often choose not to participate.

 

[Sherbang]

The majority would have had to put those 2 individuals in power so your numbers are off.

More than likely everyone would elect each other to be leaders and a vote would occur where everyone would vote for themselves unless of course there were some real idiots.

What you have described is not a democracy and most certainly not a clear definition or analogy of democracy.

Democracy is 1 wolf and 3 sheep deciding what's for dinner. Someone is going to get angry.

You're missing the point. That wasn't supposed to be an analogy of democracy, it's supposed to demonstrate that if there is a system with rules and you choose to take part in it then you have no right to complain if things don't turn out the way you would have liked.
If that system is a so-called democratic voting system or a silly neighbourhood game is irrelevant - by taking part you are agreeing to the rules and must accept the outcome whatever it may be - you have no right to complain.

If you choose to not take part in the system - whether it's choosing not to vote in a so-called democratic election, or choosing not to play a silly neighbourhood game, you have every right to complain if the people you didn't vote into power have a negative effect on your life. Remember, even if the party you vote for doesn't make it into power, you still allowed the winning party in, just by taking part and agreeing to the rules.

 

[Morgoth]

I guess it just reflects his ambivalence towards the whole thing. To him it makes no difference if the crooks are ANC dominated, DA dominated or a mixture of the two, no one wins anything except the politicians...



He said that if he doesn't vote then he can't be held responsible when the government of the day, whoever it is, messes up, cause he didn't take part in the system he doesn't approve of it. Once you vote, you have no more right to complain since by voting you are agreeing to the rules and are agreeing to live by the outcome of the elections whatever it is. If you vote DA and the ANC wins a majority you have to accept that as being fair and accept the ANC led government as representing the will of the people.
Only those who don't give their consent to the election (by not voting) have a right to complain about the outcome, especially since they will still be paying taxes to whoever wins. I guess he feels disillusioned with the system, and doesn't want to be 'represented' by politicians he doesn't trust and doesn't believe in.

(I'm arguing on his behalf here to play devils advocate, but we did have quite a long discussion about it)

other way around, by not voting you can't complain because you did not try to change it, letting those who asked for change down. What a nice conscience to have? By voting you tried to push for change, and you feel your voice needs to be represented in parliament, winning a election is more then the winner takes all arguement,

 

[Morgoth]

You're missing the point. That wasn't supposed to be an analogy of democracy, it's supposed to demonstrate that if there is a system with rules and you choose to take part in it then you have no right to complain if things don't turn out the way you would have liked.
If that system is a so-called democratic voting system or a silly neighbourhood game is irrelevant - by taking part you are agreeing to the rules and must accept the outcome whatever it may be - you have no right to complain.

If you choose to not take part in the system - whether it's choosing not to vote in a so-called democratic election, or choosing not to play a silly neighbourhood game, you have every right to complain if the people you didn't vote into power have a negative effect on your life. Remember, even if the party you vote for doesn't make it into power, you still allowed the winning party in, just by taking part and agreeing to the rules.

Abstaining from voting which is in the rules of the system is also part of the system. By not voting you accept things as it is,

 

[Peder]

I feel if you don't vote you are not allowed to say ANYTHING about the government of the day

 

[Sherbang]

You are right !!
I disagree, it should be law that you have to vote.

exactly.

So, you're saying that if your choices were Hitler, Mugabe or Stalin you would still vote because everyone has to vote whether you like the candidates or not?

 

[Pooky]

Spoiling your vote is just silly, and if you don't vote then you must not complain.

 

[marine1]

I feel if you don't vote you are not allowed to say ANYTHING about the government of the day

That would be correct. If you dont wanna participate in this country by voting then you have forfeited your right to complain.

 

[marine1]

Spoiling your vote is just silly, and if you don't vote then you must not complain.

Have you ever voted?

 

[subculture]

You're missing the point.

The point is to use the correct understanding of the system before you paint a bias picture by not understanding the mechanics of the system you are attempting to describe.

I may be missing the point in the system you are describing, but that may be because you are missing the point in the system we are describing.

Besides by not voting you are essentially voting with the majority vote at the time.

 

[Alan]

So, you're saying that if your choices were Hitler, Mugabe or Stalin you would still vote because everyone has to vote whether you like the candidates or not?

Yes.

 

[Morgoth]

So, you're saying that if your choices were Hitler, Mugabe or Stalin you would still vote because everyone has to vote whether you like the candidates or not?

in communism you can vote, as long as you vote for the communist party. If its a fair democracy then there will be a other party outvoting them and besides what Hitler stand for at first before his jewish genocide was not that bad.

This example is not logical.

 

[Jonny Two Shoes]

Hmmm...what we have here is a bunch of biased people

One point is everyone who wants the ANC out is biased. Therefore no matter what you better vote!!!.
The point of the OP is not biased. Every party is evil regardless and no matter who takes the seats it will still be the same. So why not protest somehow?

I say let's all form the MYBB party free Interwebz for all!!!!

By the way who can sponsor me a trip to Durban from Jo'Burg on voting day? Coz I gotta get there somehow to vote

 

[Morgoth]

So, you're saying that if your choices were Hitler, Mugabe or Stalin you would still vote because everyone has to vote whether you like the candidates or not?

Hmmm...what we have here is a bunch of biased people

One point is everyone who wants the ANC out is biased. Therefore no matter what you better vote!!!.
The point of the OP is not biased. Every party is evil regardless and no matter who takes the seats it will still be the same. So why not protest somehow?

I say let's all form the MYBB party free Interwebz for all!!!!

By the way who can sponsor me a trip to Durban for Jo'Burg on voting day? Coz I gotta get there somehow to vote

write a letter telling cope that they will get full It support guaranteed if they stand for uncapped internet to all =)

 

[Sherbang]

The point is to use the correct understanding of the system before you paint a bias picture by not understanding the mechanics of the system you are attempting to describe.

I may be missing the point in the system you are describing, but that may be because you are missing the point in the system we are describing.

Besides by not voting you are essentially voting with the majority vote at the time.

The mechanics of the system is irrelevant, what system it is is irrelevant. What's relevant is that by agreeing to the rules of a system, any system, you are approving the outcome and consequences of that system, whatever they may be.

If you decide to vote for the DA and the ANC still gets a two thirds majority, you can't then complain if they decide to change the constitution. By voting for the DA you agreed to the rules that say whoever wins the most votes wins the election and any party who gets a two thirds majority is allowed to change the constitution. You agreed to that. If you didn't like the rules then why agree to play?

 

[Morgoth]

I think the none votes just don't like the idea of standing in a queue.

 

[subculture]

The mechanics of the system is irrelevant, what system it is is irrelevant. What's relevant is that by agreeing to the rules of a system, any system, you are approving the outcome and consequences of that system, whatever they may be.

No you are not. If you choose not to get involved with any system you are extraditing yourself from the chosen system essentially giving yourself over to that system.

What you are saying would only make sense if your 'friend' chose to leave the country. Until then by choosing not to vote is part of the system (it his right) and by choosing to not to vote makes his vote a majority vote which we all witnessed in the last elections our country had.

Sorry but the pillar on which your friend is pinning their philosophy on is not very stable as there seems to be no understanding behind choice. You can choose to or not to but ultimately you making a choice and the system is affording that option.

Non participation within the system is part of the rules and construct on which the system is built. If your friend lived in a cave, totally self sufficient and unconnected to the current society we are basing this on then I would agree, but until then non voting is silly, but unfortunately allowed. It is their right.

 

[JungleBoy]

Abstaining from voting which is in the rules of the system is also part of the system. By not voting you accept things as they are,

err... negative.

voting the ruling party back to power is accepting things as they are.
not voting could be because there is no viable alternative...

 

[Serqet]

Subculture is right. The choice to not vote is intself a choice thereby you are participating whether you like it or not. So not voting solves nothing. He should simply vote the party that has a policy that he is passionate about. There must be one party out there that shares similiar beliefs to him. I don't believe he can't find a single one. Seems like a cop out to me.