Chris Nolan's - The Odyssey.

[Herr der Verboten]

Too many red flags with this Nolan effort - the result of too much creative license. And yet Oppenheimer wasn't mired in controversy because he respected the source material.

Just because its myth it doesn't mean he should race/gender swop especially if you're not willing to be consistent.

Would he make a movie about African ancestral myths but decide to cast white people?
And where do you draw the line. Even historical figures have fictional elements which we believe to be true.
Shaka Zulu may have been a white Englishman raised by Zulus?

Experts will be shortly. Ohwait...

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Too many red flags with this Nolan effort - the result of too much creative license. And yet Oppenheimer wasn't mired in controversy because he respected the source material.

Just because its myth it doesn't mean he should race/gender swop especially if you're not willing to be consistent.

Would he make a movie about African ancestral myths but decide to cast white people?
And where do you draw the line. Even historical figures have fictional elements which we believe to be true.
Shaka Zulu may have been a white Englishman raised by Zulus?

The first bit is just you wanting something to be upset about, and the source material for Oppenheimer was a non-fiction book about a real person.

And part of my point was precisely that 'respect the source material' is not a coherent concept when it comes to myths that are entirely fictional concoctions over the course of centuries, which have been re-told, re-mixed, and mish mashed many, many times over that period.

Was Wolfgang Petersen's Troy with Brad Pitt and an all-white, non-Greek cast faithful to the source material?

Re. Shaka Zulu - surely you understand how a) he was a real person, b) his race is central to him as a historical character, in a way that it simply isn't with Helen of Troy?

As a reminder, Helen a) didn't actually exist, b) was a swan or perhaps a goose, before becoming 'human', and c) was the 'daughter' of a god, who raped Helen's goose mother.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

The first bit is just you wanting something to be upset about, and the source material for Oppenheimer was a non-fiction book about a real person.

And part of my point was precisely that 'respect the source material' is not a coherent concept when it comes to myths that are entirely fictional concoctions over the course of centuries, which have been re-told, re-mixed, and mish mashed many, many times over that period.

Was Wolfgang Petersen's Troy with Brad Pitt and an all-white, non-Greek cast faithful to the source material?

Re. Shaka Zulu - surely you understand how a) he was a real person, b) his race is central to him as a historical character, in a way that it simply isn't with Helen of Troy?

As a reminder, Helen a) didn't actually exist, b) was a swan or perhaps a goose, before becoming 'human', and c) was the 'daughter' of a god, who raped Helen's goose mother.

Respect the time period then. If you're going to make a movie set in ancient Greece, then set it in ancient Greece. You can bet there was no such thing as trannies back then, so sticking one in there breaks the immersion. The tranny becomes the focus of attention rather than the story.

The all white cast for Troy worked because, surprise surprise, in ancient Greece they were mostly white. If you want to be strictly historically accurate then they wouldn't even be speaking English. But that's about as much as should be allowed to change, no contemporary political BS thrown in.

The same goes for Shaka. Whether he was real or not is irrelevant. If you're making a movie about a Zulu king then he better bloody well be a straight black man...

 

[wizardofid]

Matt Damon is the worst thing about this imo. Cool actor, but he just doesn't fit a movie set in this era. It's hard not to see Jason Bourne etc.

Well put it this way we had to rescue his ass in world war 2, and twice in space, at least this time, he is on earth and has to save his own ass, this time.

 

[Cray]

Respect the time period then. If you're going to make a movie set in ancient Greece, then set it in ancient Greece. You can bet there was no such thing as trannies back then, so sticking one in there breaks the immersion. The tranny becomes the focus of attention rather than the story.

We don't even know what character he is playing, it only breaks the immersion if your focus is in the actors back story and not the role they are playing.

They arent playing a transsexual, they are playing a person. If you watch the movie amd find them to be terrible in the role that is all good -totally your right. But you are pre-judging his performance without seeing one second of it based on what you know about the actor's real life back story.

And honestly, this movie has gods and and a cyclops in it, but the fact that one of the actors used to be a women is the thing that is going to break your sense of immersion ?

 

[RedViking]

We don't even know what character he is playing, it only breaks the immersion if your focus is in the actors back story and not the role they are playing.

They arent playing a transsexual, they are playing a person. If you watch the movie amd find them to be terrible in the role that is all good -totally your right. But you are pre-judging his performance without seeing one second of it based on what you know about the actor's real life back story.

And honestly, this movie has gods and and a cyclops in it, but the fact that one of the actors used to be a women is the thing that is going to break your sense of immersion ?

She. Is still a woman. Actress. If she can play a male character better than any other talent available. Why not.

14 Actors Who Masterfully Played Opposite Genders

Actors can do a lot to get a role: completely change their image, shave their heads, slim down, gain weight, and even change their gender. Bright Side made a list of 14 movies where actors skilfully portrayed people of a different gender.

brightside.me

 

[RedViking]

The first bit is just you wanting something to be upset about, and the source material for Oppenheimer was a non-fiction book about a real person.

And part of my point was precisely that 'respect the source material' is not a coherent concept when it comes to myths that are entirely fictional concoctions over the course of centuries, which have been re-told, re-mixed, and mish mashed many, many times over that period.

Was Wolfgang Petersen's Troy with Brad Pitt and an all-white, non-Greek cast faithful to the source material?

Re. Shaka Zulu - surely you understand how a) he was a real person, b) his race is central to him as a historical character, in a way that it simply isn't with Helen of Troy?

As a reminder, Helen a) didn't actually exist, b) was a swan or perhaps a goose, before becoming 'human', and c) was the 'daughter' of a god, who raped Helen's goose mother.

Then they should get a cat to play the goose.

 

[wbot]

Your preference is your own so whatever, but you're still not getting the distinction. There's nothing inherent to Indy Jones as a character where his race is important. With the Fresh Prince there obviously is!

you can say whatever you want, i will never support race swapping. Not for real or fictional characters. Race is always important when it comes to black fictional characters but never important when it comes to fictional characters created as white. Funny that.

 

[Herr der Verboten]

Respect the time period then. If you're going to make a movie set in ancient Greece, then set it in ancient Greece. You can bet there was no such thing as trannies back then, so sticking one in there breaks the immersion. The tranny becomes the focus of attention rather than the story.

The all white cast for Troy worked because, surprise surprise, in ancient Greece they were mostly white. If you want to be strictly historically accurate then they wouldn't even be speaking English. But that's about as much as should be allowed to change, no contemporary political BS thrown in.

The same goes for Shaka. Whether he was real or not is irrelevant. If you're making a movie about a Zulu king then he better bloody well be a straight black man...

you can say whatever you want, i will never support race swapping. Not for real or fictional characters. Race is always important when it comes to black fictional characters but never important when it comes to fictional characters created as white. Funny that.

But...

 

[wbot]

Re. Shaka Zulu - surely you understand how a) he was a real person, b) his race is central to him as a historical character, in a way that it simply isn't with Helen of Troy?

I wonder what your opinions are about stuff like the all non-white cast of the musical Hamilton? Sure there will now be some sort of excuse or explanation to make the races of real historical white people unimportant lol.

 

[Tman*]

you can say whatever you want, i will never support race swapping. Not for real or fictional characters. Race is always important when it comes to black fictional characters but never important when it comes to fictional characters created as white. Funny that.

I've been told the new Tarzan will be good

 

[FiestaST]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2057337586298069456

 

[Cray]

you can say whatever you want, i will never support race swapping. Not for real or fictional characters. Race is always important when it comes to black fictional characters but never important when it comes to fictional characters created as white. Funny that.

And yet we have had Johnny Depp playing Tonto.
Tilda Swanson playing an Asian in Doctor Strange.
John Wayne playing Genghis Khan.
Patrick Stewart playing Othello

 

[porchrat]

Sure, if you're going for accuracy don't cast a black lady as someone that was objectively Greek.

I'm more concerned about Elliot Page playing Achilles than a black lady playing Helen of Troy though.

You can suspend your disbelief for the black lady, but I find it very difficult to believe someone that small and poorly built is going to play a convincing Achilles. He's supposed to be tall and striking, not 5'1 and easily knocked over by a brisk wind.

 

[netstrider]

We don't even know what character he is playing, it only breaks the immersion if your focus is in the actors back story and not the role they are playing.

They arent playing a transsexual, they are playing a person. If you watch the movie amd find them to be terrible in the role that is all good -totally your right. But you are pre-judging his performance without seeing one second of it based on what you know about the actor's real life back story.

And honestly, this movie has gods and and a cyclops in it, but the fact that one of the actors used to be a women is the thing that is going to break your sense of immersion ?

Is still a woman. I know, some people don't get that simple fact, but most people do.

 

[prod]

Your preference is your own so whatever, but you're still not getting the distinction. There's nothing inherent to Indy Jones as a character where his race is important. With the Fresh Prince there obviously is!

Except literally how he was created and envisioned by George Lucas? And he has Scottish ancestry doesn't he?

Bit weird how race doesn't matter in some cases

 

[Cray]

Is still a woman. I know, some people don't get that simple fact, but most people do.

Okay, so even if you suggest that she is acting as a man in real life, then that should be pretty good practise to play a man in a movie...?

 

[porchrat]

Except literally how he was created and envisioned by George Lucas? And he has Scottish ancestry doesn't he?

Bit weird how race doesn't matter in some cases

That and his earliest film adventures are set in the early to mid 1900s. A time famous for its abundance of black archaeology professors running around stealing artifacts.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

We don't even know what character he is playing, it only breaks the immersion if your focus is in the actors back story and not the role they are playing.

They arent playing a transsexual, they are playing a person. If you watch the movie amd find them to be terrible in the role that is all good -totally your right. But you are pre-judging his performance without seeing one second of it based on what you know about the actor's real life back story.

And honestly, this movie has gods and and a cyclops in it, but the fact that one of the actors used to be a women is the thing that is going to break your sense of immersion ?

Oh boy, we're going to get into this again aren't we?

A movie is meant to take you away from this world and make you feel a part of that world. That's called immersion.
When you include contempory political BS, it brings you right back into the world you were trying to escape from. That's called breaking immersion.

So yes for me the fact that one of the actresses is a women pretending to be a man, does break immersion. I'm not going to pretend "oh I didn't even notice it's a tranny, I'm so liberated, anyone who noticed is a bigot". F that, anyone who says that is a liar.

I will always stand with biological men and women, not failures trying to use some social construct to seek attention and boost their ego. Then use that to try and gain an advantage over everyone else through DEI. People are welcome to call me a bigot, don't care, I wear it as a badge of honour. It means they have nothing left in their armoury to attack with...

 

[porchrat]

Okay, so even if you suggest that she is acting as a man in real life, then that should be pretty good practise to play a man in a movie...?

Achilles was not supposed to be just a man btw. He was a demigod. The blood of Zeus was supposed to flow through his veins. His heritage gave him incredible physical attributes beyond normal men. He was a hero among heroes. The finest warrior in all of Greece.

Just pointing this out so we understand the monumental, larger than life character we're dealing with here.

Hats off to Elliot, he's played some good roles before, but when I look at Elliot Page, I don't see the image I've just described.