Chris Nolan's - The Odyssey.

[Cray]

That and his earliest film adventures are set in the early to mid 1900s. A time famous for its abundance of black archaeology professors running around stealing artifacts.

Hate to break it to you mate, I don't think even white archaelogy professors at the time were raiding tombs and fighting Nazis.

 

[Cray]

Oh boy, we're going to get into this again aren't we?

A movie is meant to take you away from this world and make you feel a part of that world. That's called immersion.
When you include contempory political BS, it brings you right back into the world you were trying to escape from. That's called breaking immersion.

How do you know it will break your immersion if you haven't seen it yet.

So yes for me the fact that one of the actresses is a women pretending to be a man, does break immersion. I'm not going to pretend "oh I didn't even notice it's a tranny, I'm so liberated, anyone who noticed is a bigot". F that, anyone who says that is a liar.

People pretending to be things they are not is literally the entire basis of movies and acting in genral. Who cares if' the person who places a role used to be a woman as long as they can be convincing as a man.. I have no idea how they are going to be in this role, they might suck. But Nolan generally casts pretty well so I''' withhold judgement until I actually see the movie.

I will always stand with biological men and women, not failures trying to use some social construct to seek attention and boost their ego.

Boost their ego? Ellen/Elliot Page was already a lauded actress before she transitioned, after which she has hardly been in anything, do you really think she did it for attention?

 

[wbot]

And yet we have had Johnny Depp playing Tonto.
Tilda Swanson playing an Asian in Doctor Strange.
John Wayne playing Genghis Khan.
Patrick Stewart playing Othello

And you think I support any of that? No, I don't. I've also not watched any of those. John Wayne as Genghis Khan is the most rediculous and if the movie or whatever was made today you'd bet I would be totally against it.

 

[porchrat]

Hate to break it to you mate, I don't think even white archaelogy professors at the time were raiding tombs and fighting Nazis.

For sure not, but white people were routinely found as archeology professors, black folks were not. I'd be surprised if there was a single black archeology professor in the entirety of the US in the 30s. The character's just not believable in that setting. It will break the immersion for a portion of your audience.

If you're trying to set a period accurate picture you probably should avoid casting a black man.

To me film is the one place where racial discrimination is fair. You should have a race, gender and build/general presence in mind for a character or role. It's a visual medium. This is normal and, to me anyway, expected. It's OK.

 

[Cray]

And you think I support any of that? No, I don't. I've also not watched any of those. John Wayne as Genghis Khan is the most rediculous and if the movie or whatever was made today you'd bet I would be totally against it.

Kudos for consistency. And yes, I agree with you that historical figures should not be race swapped.

 

[Cray]

For sure not, but white people were routinely found as archeology professors, black folks were not. I'd be surprised if there was a single black archeology professor in the entirety of the US in the 30s.

John Wesley Gilbert was a black archaelogist in the US as early as 1911.

If you're trying to set a period accurate picture you probably should avoid casting a black man.

To me film is the one place where racial discrimination is fair. You should have a race, gender and build in mind for a character or role. It's a visual medium. This is normal and expected. It's OK.

Am not for one moment suggesting that it's not okay to have a white Indy, I love the character. Just that you could tell a similar story about a black archaelogist (assuming you have a great actor) that wouldn't fundamentally alter the story. Am not suggesting you should but that for certain fictional characters, race really doesn't enter into it.

 

[netstrider]

Okay, so even if you suggest that she is acting as a man in real life, then that should be pretty good practise to play a man in a movie...?

Maybe to play a gay man. Not a proud, wrathful, fearless Lion of Greece.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

How do you know it will break your immersion if you haven't seen it yet.

Because I know there's a tranny in it who doesn't belong there. It's already ruined for me.

People pretending to be things they are not is literally the entire basis of movies and acting in genral. Who cares if' the person who places a role used to be a woman as long as they can be convincing as a man.. I have no idea how they are going to be in this role, they might suck. But Nolan generally casts pretty well so I''' withhold judgement until I actually see the movie.

Yes it's fine for actors, that's their job, to convince you that they are actually a part of that world. Now you have an actor who's also a tranny. The actor part belongs, the tranny part doesn't.

Also are you finally admitting that trannies are pretending to be something they aren't?

Boost their ego? Ellen/Elliot Page was already a lauded actress before she transitioned, after which she has hardly been in anything, do you really think she did it for attention?

No she wasn't. They had to take up half a season of Umbrella Academy to boost her ego. Ask yourself this question - if she didn't transition, would she even have landed a part in this movie as a woman? She sure as hell would have made a schitty Helen. Being a tranny and feeding the fad is exactly what got her the part...

 

[porchrat]

John Wesley Gilbert was a black archaelogist in the US as early as 1911.

Very cool.

I want to point out that he was not an archeology professor. Again, I doubt there was one.

during that period it was OK to have the occasional black fellow around, but consistent presence in leadership positions? No.

Am not for one moment suggesting that it's not okay to have a white Indy, I love the character. Just that you could tell a similar story about a black archaelogist (assuming you have a great actor) that wouldn't fundamentally alter the story. Am not suggesting you should but that for certain fictional characters, race really doesn't enter into it.

You could tell a similar story, not the story of the Scottish ancestry archeology professor from the early 1900s though. May as well tell me a period-accurate story about an Ethiopian medieval knight.

As I say, maybe you could get someone to suspend their disbelief for a character ensemble film, but for the main character to be so out of place historically. Man I would find that hard to follow in the story. It would bother me. I'd have so many questions about it. It's just so out of place.

 

[porchrat]

How do you know it will break your immersion if you haven't seen it yet.

I'm relatively familiar with the character of Achilles as I'm sure are most people by this point. Unless there's some serious CGI and camera trickery happening with Elliot Page it's also going to break my immersion seeing him as Achilles, god amongst men.

 

[Cray]

I'm relatively familiar with the character of Achilles as I'm sure are most people by this point. Unless there's some serious CGI and camera trickery happening with Elliot Page it's also going to break my immersion seeing him as Achilles, god amongst men.

He/She hasn't been confirmed as playing Achilles though. And Achilles is a ghost in the Odyssey.

 

[porchrat]

He/She hasn't been confirmed as playing Achilles though. And Achilles is a ghost in the Odyssey.

Yea I'm saying this under the assumption that he has been confirmed as Achilles and I'm discussing it.

I don't really care if Achilles is a ghost. Elliot is 5'1 and can be knocked over by a brisk wind. Did dying alter Achilles' skeletal structure?

Again, I want to be clear here. This is a literal demigod. A hero that made other heroes look like absolute chumps. A man of exceptional physical capability and build. One of, if not the most, badass mortals to ever walk the Earth. When you think of this literal demigod, is Eliot Page the one that honestly comes to mind? It doesn't for me.

This is not a jab at Elliot Page as a person. I'm just saying there are roles he's suited for, and roles that he isn't suited for. In film these things matter.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

He/She hasn't been confirmed as playing Achilles though. And Achilles is a ghost in the Odyssey.

This brings up another point - why are they keeping some roles so secret but revealing others? They obviously know it's going to be controversial and are trying to bait people into watching it. And if they know this, that should tell you the answer about whether it was the right call to cast her or not - whatever her role is...

 

[Cray]

Because I know there's a tranny in it who doesn't belong there. It's already ruined for me.

It's weird where you draw the line at what does or doesn't belong. Have you seen the average actor these days, perfect teeth, plastic surgery, not of that existed in ancient Greece and Matt Damon, a generic white dude playing someone from the mediterranean , that doesn't ruin it for you? Perhaps it's your biases that are ruining it for you?

Yes it's fine for actors, that's their job, to convince you that they are actually a part of that world. Now you have an actor who's also a tranny. The actor part belongs, the tranny part doesn't.

In your not so humble opinion.

Also are you finally admitting that trannies are pretending to be something they aren't?

It makes zero difference in my life. If people want to act as men/woman. All power to them. As long as they don't enter women's sports I have zero issue with what they do and am not going to sit an make prouncements about other people when what they are doing doesn't affect me in the slightest. If someone wants me to call them he/she then I will, because I generally don't go out of my way to be a d*ck to people if it's so easy to not be one to the,

No she wasn't. They had to take up half a season of Umbrella Academy to boost her ego. Ask yourself this question - if she didn't transition, would she even have landed a part in this movie as a woman?

Quite possibly, she has worked with Nolan before (Inception) and he has a history or recasting people he has worked with previously,.

She sure as hell would have made a schitty Helen. Being a tranny and feeding the fad is exactly what got her the part...

Yes, all those movies she did before she transitioned mus be in my imagination.

 

[Cray]

This brings up another point - why are they keeping some roles so secret but revealing others? They obviously know it's going to be controversial and are trying to bait people into watching it. And if they know this, that should tell you the answer about whether it was the right call to cast her or not - whatever her role is...

Maybe becauae they know that some people make massive deals over things that don't really matter? Castings could be kept secret for any number of reasons (e.g. Kevin Spacey in Seven).

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

Maybe becauae they know that some people make massive deals over things that don't really matter?

Yes people will make a massive deal over it, whether it doesn't matter is in your opinion. They don't want a box office bomb, and are trying to bait people into watching it. We're saying the same thing...

 

[Cray]

Yea I'm saying this under the assumption that he has been confirmed as Achilles and I'm discussing it.

I don't really care if Achilles is a ghost. Elliot is 5'1 and can be knocked over by a brisk wind. Did dying alter Achilles' skeletal structure?

Again, I want to be clear here. This is a literal demigod. A hero that made other heroes look like absolute chumps. A man of exceptional physical capability and build. One of, if not the most, badass mortals to ever walk the Earth. When you think of this literal demigod, is Eliot Page the one that honestly comes to mind? It doesn't for me.

If Page is cast as Achilles, then yes, I think there would need to be some work done at convincing me about the character. But's it;s entirely possible that Nolan's ghosts are shadow's of their former selves so there are a number of ways it could work.

 

[Cray]

Yes people will make a massive deal over it, whether it doesn't matter is in your opinion. They don't want a box office bomb, and are trying to bait people into watching it. We're saying the same thing...

So your argument is that it's immersion breaking and will ruin the movie for you but you also say the movie makers are doing that to get people into theatres??? The usual response to people bitching about this sort of thing is that they won't watch the movie at all so tell me again how this is baiting people to watch it? Make it make sense.

 

[netstrider]

That's why old British shows are the best. You'll have a normal looking cop paired with a normal, if not somewhat chubby woman with yellow teeth, solving crimes (just an example). It's much more believable.

 

[borro]

Can't wait...

View attachment 1909482

View attachment 1909483

You forget pappa ((