Confiscating fake notes

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cr@zydude

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Hi guys, I had an issue with a wholesaler yesterday. While paying the cashier told me that one of the R100 notes was fake. I immediately told her that I would pay her another R100, and asked for the note back. She said that this couldn't be done. I then asked for a supervisor. I asked the supervisor why I couldn't swop the note out, and she said that it was the law. I asked what gave them the right to confiscate money which they think is fake, and she eventually brought out a letter from ABSA. All that the letter stated was that the store had deposited a fake note with ABSA and the store would not be credited for the fake note.

The GM eventually came out and claimed that the only way to settle it is for me to leave the note or for him to call the police. After a good few minutes, he eventually had the supervisor mark the note "so that I don't try to rob them again" and gave it back to me.

The issues that I had, with their set up it is not possible for me to view the note which they claim is fake. What right do they have to confiscate a note on their own suspicion?

From the SARB's website:

What should I do if I think I have been given a fake or suspect note?

Answer: You should refuse to accept it and ask for another banknote. Remember that it is a criminal offence to use and pass on a counterfeit note knowingly. Ensure that you know the security, technical and design features of the new banknotes. Report any suspect notes to the South African Police Service.
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As I read that, they can reject a note, or call the police, but it doesn't give them the right to confiscate notes which may be fake.

As far as a criminal case goes, I didn't knowingly do it. It's a wholesaler I've used weekly for the last 5 years. I'd need to be an idiot to try to get a fake note past them. Also, it was 1 note, a rather small value compared to the payment.

So, what right to stores in general have to confiscate notes? Do wholesalers have some special right? I don't know of it, and no one at the store could show it to me.
 
If I get fake money in the store, when I cash up, the Bank/police confiscate the note and I lose the money.....

If the customer is caught passing the note, they lose the money and we call the cops....
 
The issues that I had, with their set up it is not possible for me to view the note which they claim is fake.
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Seems like a reasonable request.

I understand why they're reluctant to hand it back though - can't have people going from shop to shop with the same bad note until it works...

Maybe just phrased the request poorly?
 
I solved the problem quick enough by me, by having note detectors and overhead camera's at the tills....

It's been yonks since we had dud's...
 
Mortymoose said:
If I get fake money in the store, when I cash up, the Bank/police confiscate the note and I lose the money.....

If the customer is caught passing the note, they lose the money and we call the cops....
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I was more than willing to take the loss on the fake note. I didn't ask them to accept it, and offered to give them another R100 straight away.

They claimed that my options were, leave the note with them or have them call the cops. This doesn't seem correct.

HavocXphere said:
Seems like a reasonable request.

I understand why they're reluctant to hand it back though - can't have people going from shop to shop with the same bad note until it works...

Maybe just phrased the request poorly?
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I hope that it was poor communication, it would make the most sense, and be the best going forward. The letter I was presented was in no way relevant. Like I said to the GM, it's a noisy building and talking through the glass is difficult at the best of times.
 
I'm also in retail and whenever the bank teller pics up a fake note, they just punch holes in the note or with other banks they just inform me it's fake, hand it back and request another note.
 
They technically should call the cops. Just be glad they didn't. Always check your notes as soon as you get them.
 
Garyvdh said:
They technically should call the cops. Just be glad they didn't. Always check your notes as soon as you get them.
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No, I won't just be glad that they didn't. The criminal offense is knowingly using a fake note. As I've said, that would have been crazy of me to do. It was 1 fake note in the payment, not an entire set of fake notes.

I had to talk to all of our shops cashiers again about using the damn UV lights.

mh348 said:
I'm also in retail and whenever the bank teller pics up a fake note, they just punch holes in the note or with other banks they just inform me it's fake, hand it back and request another note.
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If that had happened, this thread wouldn't even exist.
 
A few years ago we needed to buy R10k worth of routers from an MTN shop. Can't remember why but we had to pay cash.

We went to Standard Bank in Canal Walk and drew the cash. Went straight to the MTN shop where they found a few fakes. Swapped them out and spent them at the pub.

So we were issued the fakes by the bank! On the plus side you can easily spend them ;)
 
cr@zydude said:
More than half of wholesalers only accept cash, at least here in PE.
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I simply don't transact with a cash only business. There is no excuse to use cash.
Debit Card/Credit Card/Flick Pay, Snap Scan (ideal for street vendors, flea markets), etc.

Sure they have fees attached, so do cash deposits.
 
About 5-6 years ago, there was a guy selling R100 notes for R50. Used to buy up "R5000" at a time just for restaurants, pubs, etc. He disappeared after a few months.
 
I had an ATM give me stained notes. Took a photo, went to the bank (was already closed, but still people inside). Had it swopped out. Also emailed my connections at that bank to inform them about the stained notes. I had them phone me back and investigated. Never learned what happened, but I know they took it quite serious.
 
cr@zydude said:
No, I won't just be glad that they didn't. The criminal offense is knowingly using a fake note. As I've said, that would have been crazy of me to do. It was 1 fake note in the payment, not an entire set of fake notes.
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Unfortunately the law is not on your side... You may believe that you did not pass it knowingly, but how do the cops know that.
And what happens if they arrest you anyway? You get to sit in jail for a few nights trying to explain this to them and waiting to speak to your lawyer?
I would rather not take that chance dude. I know you take this very seriously, that is why you should do your best to ever avoid this from happening again.
You were fortunate this time, but they could have very easily decided to call the police if they were a meaner group of people or less clued up.
Making a scene over it just makes them more aggro with you and they might decide to "take you down a peg" by calling the police.
I know they were in the wrong here. They should have refused it and you should have left, but this could also have very easily ended up different.
You read about people being arrested all the time, and it doesn't have to be a lot...
http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-cou...counterfeit-r200-notes-1.1835045#.VTul1S6AvxA
 
Garyvdh said:
Unfortunately the law is not on your side... You may believe that you did not pass it knowingly, but how do the cops know that.
And what happens if they arrest you anyway? You get to sit in jail for a few nights trying to explain this to them and waiting to speak to your lawyer?
I would rather not take that chance dude. I know you take this very seriously, that is why you should do your best to ever avoid this from happening again.
You were fortunate this time, but they could have very easily decided to call the police if they were a meaner group of people or less clued up.
Making a scene over it just makes them more aggro with you and they might decide to "take you down a peg" by calling the police.
I know they were in the wrong here. They should have refused it and you should have left, but this could also have very easily ended up different.
You read about people being arrested all the time, and it doesn't have to be a lot...
http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-cou...counterfeit-r200-notes-1.1835045#.VTul1S6AvxA
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Won't ever happen that you will be convicted based on one note only.

Uniform branch may arrest you and hold you for a couple of days. That is the worst that may happen.

If you have a bunch of notes of which only one was fake, there will be no criminal prosecutions. Either the commercial branch will withdraw the charges or the prosecutor will do so. But, if there are more than one fake note, then you are screwed. You will be charged and convicted on Uttering.
 
Hitchcock said:
Won't ever happen that you will be convicted based on one note only.

Uniform branch may arrest you and hold you for a couple of days. That is the worst that may happen.

If you have a bunch of notes of which only one was fake, there will be no criminal prosecutions. Either the commercial branch will withdraw the charges or the prosecutor will do so. But, if there are more than one fake note, then you are screwed. You will be charged and convicted on Uttering.
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So you are happy to go and sit in jail for 48 hours?
I never said you would be convicted... the being arrested part is bad enough alone.
 
Garyvdh said:
So you are happy to go and sit in jail for 48 hours?
I never said you would be convicted... the being arrested part is bad enough alone.
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Hell no. I am in agreement with you that this is a very serious matter. God, if this happened to me I'd demand they keep the **** note!
 
Besides, looking at the OP's attitude, he would probably have argued with police too. This may have had a bad ending, him probably being towed behind a van to the police station and getting 48 hours he will never, ever forget!
 
Where I work, if we get a counterfeit or dye-stained note, we are obliged to confiscate it, take the customer's details, record the details of the note, and hand them a copy of that document which also serves as a receipt. That note then gets submitted to a FICA committee for further investigation.
If they had given the note back to you, that would be the same as passing illegal currency.
That SARB piece you quoted; it says that the cashier should refuse to accept the note(s) - which they did. It does not say "hand it back to the customer".
Did they take your details and record the details of the note / transaction? Did they hand you a receipt for the note?
If not - that would be rather dodgy. Because someone who works there could then steal that note and use it elsewhere.
 
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