Cricket: International Discussion Thread

Moeen Ali inclusion makes no sense. We'll have 5 days of commentary about his spinning finger taking strain. He isn't economical enough. Cannot be considered to perform a holding role.

Dropping Jimmy :eek: :cautious:
 
WaxLyrical said:
I guess it's curtains for Anderson.

What an amazing career.
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Think it's too early to say that.
Jimmy was never going to play all 5 tests at his age.
Stokes and bazz also likely want a longer tail after the last test.
 
Creag said:
Moeen Ali inclusion makes no sense. We'll have 5 days of commentary about his spinning finger taking strain. He isn't economical enough. Cannot be considered to perform a holding role.

Dropping Jimmy :eek: :cautious:
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Stokes doesn't use any bowler to do holding roles so that isn't the issue. The issue is whether he can bowl his overs .
 
stefan9 said:
Can be debated both ways. Which way you come down depends on your moral view on how cricket should be played.
Same way mankad can be viewed.
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Glenn McGrath reckons "every single one of the former players I have spoken to, English or Australian, did not have a problem with it."

Originally I would have liked to have seen Australia captain Pat Cummins withdraw his appeal, after Alex Carey stumped Bairstow as the Englishman wandered out of his crease.

But the more I think about it the more I think it was the right decision from Cummins. I think it is a sign of something deeper in England's mentality.

What is telling is every single one of the former players I have spoken to, English or Australian, did not have a problem with it. Even West Indies legend Brian Lara has said it was out.

Now, I am a fan of Bazball. The concept of backing yourself, playing without fear and putting pressure back on the opposition - that I agree with wholeheartedly.

But Bairstow's dismissal epitomises what we have seen from England in this series.

It has been Casual Ball - CazBall if you will, not Bazball.

...

The Bairstow dismissal, the Yorkshireman walking out of his crease like he owned the game, was the culmination of everything we have seen from this current team.
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www.bbc.com

The Ashes 2023: Glenn McGrath says England have been too casual in series

Australia legend Glenn McGrath reflects on Jonny Bairstow's controversial dismissal at Lord's and explains what has disappointed him about England so far.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
 
stefan9 said:
Can be debated both ways. Which way you come down depends on your moral view on how cricket should be played.
Same way mankad can be viewed.
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"Moral" may be a tad strong, but if you want to moralize it, it's simple. On day one Carey would most likely have overlooked it, or at least warned him. The closer you get to the conclusion of the game the more alert you'll be to possibilities of grabbing wickets. When the chips are down or the game gets closer to balanced at the end, you take your chances when you can.

I suspect Carey had been watching JB doing this earlier and possibly in previous innings as well. He took his chance at the right time. Any other player or team would have done the same, especially Stokes and Broad, for whom a win at this stage would mean everything.

I don't agree with Hogg who said that Carey had been allowing it and therefore created a precedent that it's okay.

JB has been conspicuously quiet all this time, and rightly so.
 
Maurice Kitching said:
"Moral" may be a tad strong, but if you want to moralize it, it's simple. On day one Carey would most likely have overlooked it, or at least warned him. The closer you get to the conclusion of the game the more alert you'll be to possibilities of grabbing wickets. When the chips are down or the game gets closer to balanced at the end, you take your chances when you can.

I suspect Carey had been watching JB doing this earlier and possibly in previous innings as well. He took his chance at the right time. Any other player or team would have done the same, especially Stokes and Broad, for whom a win at this stage would mean everything.

I don't agree with Hogg who said that Carey had been allowing it and therefore created a precedent that it's okay.

JB has been conspicuously quiet all this time, and rightly so.
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If you aren't applying it consistently throughout the match it makes you even a bigger ass. If this is your moral belief then atleast stick to it.

JB doesn't need to say anything. A picture tells a thousand words:
 

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Its a stumping, the ball was still in play, move on
England look fired up, they can still win this series
 
stefan9 said:
If you aren't applying it consistently throughout the match it makes you even a bigger ass. If this is your moral belief then atleast stick to it.

JB doesn't need to say anything. A picture tells a thousand words:
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Test cricket is a game of superb talent with bat and ball. It is also a game of forethought, strategy during the game, guile and the ability to adjust seamlessly to changing conditions and the strategies and talents of your opposition. The only thing that should be consistent during the match the umpire's application of the laws.

Your statement illustrates fully what I've been lamenting regarding the impact of the short forms of the game on modern test cricket. I'm old enough to remember pundits in the 80's warning that ODI's will erode the integrity of the game. We all thought they were barmy old coots. Now we're playing bazball.

You don't apply strategy consistently in a chess match. It's not Tic-tac-toe.

As for the picture, the vacant stare does not inspire much confidence.
 
Seems most of the pundits on both sides agree, including AB. Also interesting to hear his take on the Starc catch. As I said, consistency among the umpires.

 
Netherlands vs Scotland

Netherlands have won the toss and have opted to field

We're in a virtual semi-final scenario with Scotland having a slight upper hand going into the match. They're well placed with 6 points and a straightforward win will be enough to secure a passage into the 2023 Cricket World Cup. But they can't discount the Netherlands, who will have to win with a margin of around 30+ runs or chase down the target with around 5-6 overs to spare.
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Maurice Kitching said:
Seems most of the pundits on both sides agree, including AB. Also interesting to hear his take on the Starc catch. As I said, consistency among the umpires.

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Yeah. I posted that quote from McGrath a bit earlier where he says every player he's spoken to says that it's out. I don't think I've seen a single international, current or former, say otherwise (apart from the current England guys obviously).

I've noticed the consistency point being raised a couple of times the past few days. In what way do you see the umpires as having been inconsistent?
 
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Speedster said:
Yeah. I posted that quote from McGrath a bit earlier where he says every player he's spoken to says that it's out. I don't think I've seen a single international, current or former, say otherwise (apart from the current England guys obviously).

I've noticed the consistency point being raised a couple of times theast few days. In what way do you see the umpires as having been inconsistent?
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I've noticed inconsistency firstly re the catches. I've not been able to find good replays of the Steve Smith catches, but I think the catch where he lost the ball to the chest was not in control and should not have been awarded, though it was. In contrast, the Starc catch was not awarded, though he was in control. Another Smith catch also comes to mind, but I'd have to look at it again. Cam Green's catch in slips also looked sketchy in the previous match.

I also spotted some inconsistency in the latter innings when adjudicating wides. Seemed like they'd been caught off guard by the number of bouncers being bowled in the second Aus innings and they started pulling it back once England started batting. This may be subjective as I was specifically looking out for it then, so it may have been more noticeable to me.

As AB says, maybe they need to look at the laws and provide some clarity to the umpires.
 
Maurice Kitching said:
Test cricket is a game of superb talent with bat and ball. It is also a game of forethought, strategy during the game, guile and the ability to adjust seamlessly to changing conditions and the strategies and talents of your opposition. The only thing that should be consistent during the match the umpire's application of the laws.

Your statement illustrates fully what I've been lamenting regarding the impact of the short forms of the game on modern test cricket. I'm old enough to remember pundits in the 80's warning that ODI's will erode the integrity of the game. We all thought they were barmy old coots. Now we're playing bazball.

You don't apply strategy consistently in a chess match. It's not Tic-tac-toe.

As for the picture, the vacant stare does not inspire much confidence.
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This is about applying your moral code consistently not tactics.
This is not even close to the same as changing your field or bowlers as the match progresses.
 
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