Crystal Web (NEW ISP) ADSL Feedback

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balky

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So the 100 gigs increases if it doesn't decrease in non-peak hours :confused:
There is then practically no [real and beneficial] incentive to use non-peak hours :(

No, the gigs don't increase, but if they're not consumed, then they're allocated to daytime use, and you in effect get more unshaped data in peak traffic hours.

We give you the unshaped data to use when you feel like, day or night, then the shaping side will shape to keep very big downloads to our off peak.
The point being made is that some people may do their downloads in peak time as opposed to 12am - 6am if it makes no difference. So even though CW is paying for bandwidth between 12am and 6am, it may be very quiet then, and in peak you may have unnecessary contention. A solution could be that when someone hits the 100 gig mark, you look back at their usage and if they have been considerate then you adjust the level of shaping accordingly.
 

Electric

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That's a valid point.
What incentive would there be for ppl to use the data in off-peak if it all counts toward the same cap?
 

Crystal Web

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Ok I was speaking to Paul, late last night, but it ended without resolution.



Fantastic. I am still here for another month on Fusion (will I get new details next month as I was put on to a new account last night?).
Some more feedback: The top up option makes no sense in terms of rand value. Uncapped Unshaped seems a better option considering it would be cheaper to get that while getting more data. Fusion literally feels like a 100GB capped account (better priced than most similar offerings out there) with a very shaped Telkomesque browsing / small downloads leash afterwards.

And hey, I know you guys are breaking the bank over there to bring us the best you can. Don't stop that. Don't lose sight of quality over quantity. The latencies are awesome. Streaming, awesome. I was a little perturbed at the fairly slow D3 update last night. Let's see how it goes next month.

Appreciate the feedback. The Fusion account is an uncapped account that gives you 100 gigs of unshaped data to play with as well, by default, and only then does shaping kick in. To be honest I thought we were doing something pretty awesome for you guys there. :(

In essence, a 2Mb customer can have what amounts to an uncapped unshaped experience at all times, as can most 4Mb customers. Higher usage customers are shaped only after 100gigs, and I then went out of my way to introduce the cheapest top-up rates per gig on the market to accommodate for guys who would prefer not to be shaped.

For your specific case it's probably not suitable because you're sharing the connection with someone else with their own unique requirements, and this is where I have to say that perhaps we just cannot please absolutely everyone. But then we created uncapped unshaped for these customers.

The issue here is everyone has unique requirements. One streams, the other downloads over nntp, the other downloads p2p, the other downloads http and https, the other downloads over VPN, the other is a gamer etc etc.

The only single account for someone who truly has mixed requirements of the above, is uncapped unshaped all of the time if you want the absolute perfect account for your needs. Or you have to change your own habits to work around the ISP's rules so that we in turn can work within in your budget.

We tried to create accounts that are affordable, offer the best value and performance, and offer the widest flexibility for customers to use as they please. We even let you do so unshaped by default entirely. Thereafter it's a case of please play by the shaping rules or move to a more appropriate account if you have to download large files in peak periods.

Heck, the new Fusion accounts let you game, stream, torrent, VPN, download from news servers, and download massive http and http files. But in order to do so at current prices, you need to download large volumes after your unshaped allocation when the network isn't busy and in a manner that allows us to maintain the quality of real-time, latency dependent protocols as well. We proposed allowing things like p2p during the day but letting it trigger other shaping (because we have to - you can't have every protocol you want, when you want it, unshaped until IPC comes down considerably) - everyone was up in arms. To the point that it turned into a Mikrotik sales seminar in here.

So we listened, and changed this entirely, after it was suggested that we simply block it. Peer to peer in our research scored a whopping 7% interest in daytime access. That's not an account that we're prepared to purchase separate capacity for, and create custom shaping policies for, and custom network management and reporting - simply for 7% who want their p2p to fly all day every day. That's why we created uncapped unshaped, and that's why we unshape you for at least 100 gigs as well.

I realise that we can't please absolutely everyone, but we're trying to, and I appreciate that customers also want the best possible account for their very specific needs. In your case we can do this - for you. But the moment you add another shared user into the equation with his own unique requirements, you have to then start looking at something that will appease you both, like uncapped unshaped instead or a higher Fusion cap. Also remember that the moment two people share an account and usage, we don't charge anything extra - your usage case though changes entirely. We'll always bend over backwards to help within someone's budget, but we're going to be saying the word no a lot more these days so that we can keep our product range streamlined, simply, and easy to use. As well as work on brand new products based on the feedback we've been getting.

And this is more of a general statement now (even though I used your usage case as an example) to everyone who wants custom products for this that and the next thing. We'll look into it, but it's also not feasible to create them all. Our current range does everything you're likely to need to do on the internet. If you have budget constraints, then you'll have to work within the constraints we impose to keep these products affordable. If budget isn't an issue and you want impeccable internet access, then there's a product for you too. If you want unshaped goodness but can't afford it all of the time, there are very flexible options for you. If you are a basic user with very little heavy usage and are not demanding of unshaped internet, then there's a very affordable product for you too.

:)
 

Crystal Web

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The point being made is that some people may do their downloads in peak time as opposed to 12am - 6am if it makes no difference. So even though CW is paying for bandwidth between 12am and 6am, it may be very quiet then, and in peak you may have unnecessary contention. A solution could be that when someone hits the 100 gig mark, you look back at their usage and if they have been considerate then you adjust the level of shaping accordingly.

Or another solution is for us to get our pricing and capacity planning right so that we expect spread usage of the 100 gigs over peak and off-peak and plan accordingly. ;)
 

copacetic

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The Fusion account looks good to me - The only point of concern I guess, is how it will perform practically after the 100 gigs - If game latency, Youtube and the like and deep-night torrents are usable, I'm happy.

In any event, CW is getting my further vote of confidence, as I am getting you guys to manage my line as well.
 

Electric

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I'm very happy with the account and pricing but my question above still stands.

What incentive would there be for ppl to use the data in off-peak if it all counts toward the same cap?

Not that I use 100gb anymore anyway.
 

copacetic

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For me, the incentive would be to help CW maintain a less strained network.
 
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Electric

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For me, the incentive would be to help CW maintain a less-strained network.

I'm not asking for myself as I'm only on 38.4 GB.
But some people are not concerned about their ISP, they are concerned about what it costs for the data and how they can best use it.
 

saa044

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Another quick TK.

Does anyone know where I can get NFC stickers? My cardboard thing did not come with one.
 

Crystal Web

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The Fusion account looks good to me - The only point of concern I guess, is how it will perform practically after the 100 gigs - If game latency, Youtube and the like and deep-night torrents are usable, I'm happy.

That's exactly how it was designed.
 

copacetic

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That's the impression I got. Fantastic.

With my recent downloading habits though, I doubt I'll even get through the unshaped pool in the first place.
 

Crystal Web

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That's a valid point.
What incentive would there be for ppl to use the data in off-peak if it all counts toward the same cap?

None on the capped if you want to go that route. You can use it whenever you like, but we'd prefer more after hours usage of course. But we're not imposing those restrictions on the unshaped portion, to allow you even more flexibility. You can use it when you like, and we've provisioned capacity for that. Thereafter, we shape to keep the network working optimally.
 

Electric

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None on the capped if you want to go that route. You can use it whenever you like, but we'd prefer more after hours usage of course. But we're not imposing those restrictions on the unshaped portion, to allow you even more flexibility. You can use it when you like, and we've provisioned capacity for that. Thereafter, we shape to keep the network working optimally.

I'm not following what you mean about capped.
I'm on Fusion uncapped but you have stated there is a cap of 100gb unshaped.
So when I reach this threshold what will happen?

What, if I was a downloader, would deter me from downloading during the day instead of at night if all traffic counts towards the 100gb?
 

Crystal Web

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With my recent downloading habits though, I doubt I'll even get through the unshaped pool in the first place.

Then you just got uncapped unshaped for an incredible price, with the option of shaped if you have a heavy usage month, that effectively won't shape what's important to you when you need it. And that's the beauty of these accounts. They even allow you to still get your large downloads after hours once shaped as well, and in my experience, nntp and torrents fire off this time in any case if it has been automated.

And in your case btw, we could have kept you on 10Mbps with the line transfer and no additional costs involved compared to what you would have been paying Telkom for the line rental.

We charge R360 for the 10Mbps line. And R599 for the Fusion account. Combined that's what you would have been paying for our 10Mbps service + Telkom line rental as well.
 

Crystal Web

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So when I reach this threshold what will happen?

You are shaped according to the shaping rules on tier 2.

What, if I was a downloader, would deter me from downloading during the day instead of at night if all traffic counts towards the 100gb?

Nothing other than your own sense of responsibility.

You may use the account as you please.
 

Electric

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So you are saying that as a paying customer I should be concerned about my ISPs issues?

I do but how many others do?
 

Paul Hjul

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So you are saying that as a paying customer I should be concerned about my ISPs issues?

I do but how many others do?
most of our customers appear to, it is part of the culture we are trying to build - whether there is mutual transparency, consideration and fairness

we don't want to create a complex costings structure that contains weird and wonderful rules and regulations in order to dictate how an account must be used and the golden rule we'd like people to follow when experiencing an unshaped experience (whether on Fusion or uncapped unshaped) is to not adjust your behaviour to try to "milk" the system.
 

Electric

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most of our customers appear to, it is part of the culture we are trying to build

we don't want to create a complex costings structure that contains weird and wonderful rules and regulations in order to dictate how an account must be used and the golden rule we'd like people to follow when experiencing an unshaped experience (whether on Fusion or uncapped unshaped) is to not adjust your behaviour to try to "milk" the system.

My only concern would be that for every 10 users you'll have 1 user that will hammer the system until he's used up his cap.
Which can work out to quite a few users hammering the system at once.
Will this become an issue for me?
 

Paul Hjul

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My only concern would be that for every 10 users you'll have 1 user that will hammer the system until he's used up his cap.
Which can work out to quite a few users hammering the system at once.
Will this become an issue for me?

Not with the design and data we've got to work with (its more a case of 1/100 than 1/10). There are quite a few mechanisms that help on this front.
 

Electric

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Thanks for the responses Paul.
I hope I have helped to clarify the situation for others.
 
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