Crystal Web (NEW ISP) ADSL Feedback

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ToxicBunny said:
Yes, pretty much the only stuff that gets shaped during the day are p2p, nntp and large downloads.. everything else is free and open as far as I understand.
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Then I have no issue as I don't download.
And gaming traffic? is that also unshaped at all times even after cap?

My household is only streaming and gaming.
 
Sinbad said:
Shaping shouldn't affect your streaming anyway. So your argument is moot
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It was an example, not a premise.
Sinbad said:
Because streaming is not shaped. P2p and nntp and large downloads are shaped.
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Okay, well let me put this to you.

Almost all of my data goes through a VPN. P2p, http, streaming hulu/netflix etc. - almost everything other than games. Since it is on an off port, what happens as soon as I am shaped? How can I be guaranteed that it wont be considered "a large download".

If most of my bandwidth goes through this off port, and it is heavily encrypted and the ISP physically can't tell what the traffic actually is, how can they guarantee my browsing or streaming wont be affected? I happen to use the same port for fetching p2p stuff too. So what now?

The easiest way is to zero-rate my data during off peak. I wont be using lots of bandwidth through this specific pipe during the day - but if it is encrypted, how can they possibly tell the difference?
 
Electric said:
Then I have no issue as I don't download.
And gaming traffic? is that also unshaped at all times even after cap?

My household is only streaming and gaming.
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Yup... as far as I'm aware gaming is also unshaped.
 
agentrfr said:
It was an example, not a premise.

Okay, well let me put this to you.

Almost all of my data goes through a VPN. P2p, http, streaming hulu/netflix etc. - almost everything other than games. Since it is on an off port, what happens as soon as I am shaped? How can I be guaranteed that it wont be considered "a large download".

If most of my bandwidth goes through this off port, and it is heavily encrypted and the ISP physically can't tell what the traffic actually is, how can they guarantee my browsing or streaming wont be affected? I happen to use the same port for fetching p2p stuff too. So what now?

The easiest way is to zero-rate my data during off peak. I wont be using lots of bandwidth through this specific pipe during the day - but if it is encrypted, how can they possibly tell the difference?
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Why does your data need to be encrypted over a VPN if I may ask?
 
agentrfr said:
If you aren't encrypting your p2p then I have news for you...
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You said EVERYTHING other than games, not just p2p.

I know why you would want to encrypt your p2p, but expect all ISPs to nail you for that anyway.
 
agentrfr said:
DJ/Paul

The whole unshaped download until you hit 100 gigs thing, do you count data that is consumed between midnight and 7AM before the "cap" is hit, or is that night time data zero-rated?
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The unshaped allocation doesn't differentiate according to the time of day.
There are several reasons for this - the main one being that the entire design of the product is built around being uncapped [the allocation should not be thought of as a soft cap].

Essentially if we funnel the usage patterns of the account around general off-peak then what is going to happen is that the network load throughout the day moreover it damages the experience for customers who are shaped: also a very simple incentive to schedule your large (and scheduled generally) downloads for the 00:30-06:30 window is because then you'll be less likely to notice the shaping being applied at all. [Some customers have remarked that they haven't noticed the shaping at all, and that is what we would like to continuously work towards. These customers are customers who have scheduled their downloads]

We are constantly evaluating product design and ways to do things better but fundamentally our goal is quite simple - to provide customers with the best possible experience in the simplest possible ways. To do this we need to break down some bad habits in the industry - the big one being a culture of offering carrots (and not actually having enough carrots to deliver on the offer) while actually intending of using a stick to control behaviour.
 
ToxicBunny said:
You said EVERYTHING other than games, not just p2p.

I know why you would want to encrypt your p2p, but expect all ISPs to nail you for that anyway.
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It isn't the ISPs I care about, it is fair for them to shape my p2p. The VPN captures all data unless I set up exclusion rules for it. In my browser right now as far as the internet is concerned I am based in sunny Florida, which means I can use hulu and netflix without any issue. I've also found that streaming twitch works better coming from a US server through the VPN than it does trying from here.
 
Paul Hjul said:
The unshaped allocation doesn't differentiate according to the time of day.
There are several reasons for this - the main one being that the entire design of the product is built around being uncapped [the allocation should not be thought of as a soft cap].

Essentially if we funnel the usage patterns of the account around general off-peak then what is going to happen is that the network load throughout the day moreover it damages the experience for customers who are shaped: also a very simple incentive to schedule your large (and scheduled generally) downloads for the 00:30-06:30 window is because then you'll be less likely to notice the shaping being applied at all. [Some customers have remarked that they haven't noticed the shaping at all, and that is what we would like to continuously work towards. These customers are customers who have scheduled their downloads]

We are constantly evaluating product design and ways to do things better but fundamentally our goal is quite simple - to provide customers with the best possible experience in the simplest possible ways. To do this we need to break down some bad habits in the industry - the big one being a culture of offering carrots (and not actually having enough carrots to deliver on the offer) while actually intending of using a stick to control behaviour.
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Okay then, whatever you guys think is best. I'll keep my Pi to those times, but personally I still find the model a bit strange.
 
I'm honestly not following....

agent is going on about VPNs and such... you mention Unotelly which is not a VPN...
 
ToxicBunny said:
I'm honestly not following....

agent is going on about VPNs and such... you mention Unotelly which is not a VPN...
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Sorry, I should have been a bit more specific.
He is clearly using a vpn to bypass aspects that the isp wants to manage.
If he is using Unotelly it would not be an issue.

He should stop trying to bypass I guess.
It was a random observation.
 
Electric said:
Sorry, I should have been a bit more specific.
He is clearly using a vpn to bypass aspects that the isp wants to manage.
If he is using Unotelly it would not be an issue.

He should stop trying to bypass I guess.
It was a random observation.
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Ahhh, now I'm following, and I agree.
 
balky said:
Yes, that's all good, except in 1 years time (when Paul and Shaun are driving Ferraris), there will be a whole lot of new users who haven't read this thread, and won't give it a second thought. There should be some motivation to do downloads in off-peak times (while un-shaped). As I've mentioned before, perhaps CW can be less strict when shaped provided the user has downloaded in off peak in the un-shaped portion.
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Bentley and being driven ...

The big motivation is to make your life simpler and to produce a sustainable ecosystem that provides everybody with the best possible experience.

Trying to incentivize usage patterns that are sustainable is similar to paying people to put their waste in an appropriate bin at a botanical garden
If users do schedule their downloads for after hours three major benefits accrue: [1] That capacity which they would otherwise be demanding at peak times are available for non-download usage by everybody ; [2] scheduling your downloads for the witching hours means that your connection is clear during the time you want to engage in real time activities (a support query complaining of slow speeds on a game only to discover that the customer is running large http downloads and torrents while wanting to play on the 4Mbps line - if your linux distro is occupying 300kBps there isn't space for the game - makes me wonder why I spend more time trying to rebut the discourse of "abusers" than searching for a suitable skilled chauffeur; [3] if you have your routine and setup to participate in this ecosystem we are trying to build your life is easier (no change in behaviour) and you don't have to worry about what quantity you've used.
 
Man, a 4mbps shaped uncapped account WITH 100GB unshaped data and people still complain? MAN. This is so messed up.
 
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