Cybersmart Weekender Cancellation

[Eisbein]

they really are insulting our intelligence- offers better value? how so- they have reduced the download time by 50%. from 54 to 27.5 hours?? This company is incredibly underhanded. they remind me of those used car dealers- "I swear sir, the straw car has excellent mileage"

Not only that, but they have also taken away the 'giggy bank' on the 'new and improved' *spit* Nightrider basic.


I wouldn't mind the change if they were just upfront about it.

And like what have been said - if you give someone an option and he uses it, you can't come back and then call it 'abuse'.

If that was an issue they could have put a soft cap on it and said that if you go over 20GB your downloads would then be throttled to 10kb/s or something like that.

But to say(and sell) one thing and then do another is not on.

I'm new here so I don't know the rules - if I want to get some info about this deal and how the company is in other's experience - is there a place on this forum that I can go and search/ask about it ?

http://wazzup.co.za/uncapped_adsl.html

 

[Grimlock]

On which backbone does CS run again?

 

[J25]

You can always add "giggy bank" to the night rider package.

I'm also a little annoyed that they have discontinued the weekender package, but I think it works both ways. If you want the freedom of a month-to-month 'contract', then I think it's only fair that ISPs have the same freedom to change packages as and when it suits them - especially in the current volatile environment.

 

[Avenue]

You can always add "giggy bank" to the night rider package.

I'm also a little annoyed that they have discontinued the weekender package, but I think it works both ways. If you want the freedom of a month-to-month 'contract', then I think it's only fair that ISPs have the same freedom to change packages as and when it suits them - especially in the current volatile environment.

I dont think thats what people are taking exception to- an isp has the right to change its packages, but by all accounts it looks like they are accusing certain customers of abusing the system, and as a result moving them to an option that limits their download time. They are "punishing" members for doing something that was never communicated as being "inappropriate" in the first place.

They are also being devious in the way they going about it, by trying to convince us that the new offer is much better, when it clearly isnt.

well thats as I see it anyway, if any of this thinking is incorrect I would love to hear from them to straighten this matter out.

 

[laurie]

I dont think thats what people are taking exception to- an isp has the right to change its packages, but by all accounts it looks like they are accusing certain customers of abusing the system, and as a result moving them to an option that limits their download time. They are "punishing" members for doing something that was never communicated as being "inappropriate" in the first place.

They are also being devious in the way they going about it, by trying to convince us that the new offer is much better, when it clearly isnt.

well thats as I see it anyway, if any of this thinking is incorrect I would love to hear from them to straighten this matter out.

Hi

We offered free weekends with the understanding that people were not going to abuse it. There has been 162 weekend hours to date this month. At a 1:1 contention it is only possible to download 27Gigs during that timeframe on a 384Kb line, there are some guys that have done 25Gigs so far this month ( ie in 162 hours), that means that a download scheduler is switched on at the start of weekender time and switched off at the end of weekender time and the line is running full line rate for the entire weekend. There is no doubt that if sufficient people do this it is going to degrade the experience on the weekend for everyone , which it is doing. If you have the ability to schedule downloads, which you clearly do in this case, then it makes no difference if you schedule it in the nigthrider timeslot
12:30am to 7am (which is free every day of the week for 384Kb) or during the weekend. 7% of the entire weekend customer base was using 36% of the entire weekend bandwidth and the weekend service has been removed from those accounts.

To clear things up, only the weekend service has been removed, so if you were on the weekender plus paying R299 per month and had a 10Gig cap, capsaver and free weekends, from next month you will be charged R272, you will still have a 10Gig cap, your saved gigs will still be there but weekends for next month will not be free. If you are a download addict, which you must be to have this service removed in the first place, we suggest you go onto the nightrider plus service at R299 which gives you a 15 Gig cap, and free usage between 00:30 and 7am (for 384Kb circuits, different times for other circuits), which is far better value and forces you to download when there is nobody doing anything interactive.

It is not possible or in fact reasonable to expect "free usage" to mean you can download at line rate 100% of the time from the start of the free period to the end of the period, the same as "uncapped" does not actually mean "uncapped"

Regards
Laurie

 

[Avenue]

Hi

We offered free weekends with the understanding that people were not going to abuse it.

funny, this morning was the first time I heard about this "understanding" that you mentioned.

the entire weekend bandwidth and the weekend service has been removed from those accounts.

It is not possible or in fact reasonable to expect "free usage" to mean you can download at line rate 100% of the time from the start of the free period to the end of the period, the same as "uncapped" does not actually mean "uncapped"

Regards
Laurie

Hi Laurie

1) did you state in the T&C that we were not allowed to download 100% of the time? or even what is expected of us- NO
2) send us an email explaining what was a reasonable amount of bandwidth to use? NO
3) explain to those members who were using a lot of bandwidth that they were degrading the experience for every one else? NO
4) warn those users who still continued to abuse the system that they would be downgraded? NO

So if this was never communicated to us how the F%$# are we supposed to know?????? are we supposed to have some psychic ability?

If I had of been told that I need to stick to x amount of bandwidth a month, and the reasons explained, I would have been more than happy to comply.

what I resent is the fact that you are "punishing" us/throwing accusations at us for something that was NEVER COMMUNICATED TO US in the first place!

 

[Eisbein]

Thanks for the reply Laurie, but there is some things that is a little weird sounding.

that means that a download scheduler is switched on at the start of weekender time and switched off at the end of weekender time and the line is running full line rate for the entire weekend

There is (or was maybe) an article on the Cybersmart site that explain (and in a sense encourages) users to do this.
If this was/is an issue - why not say that it will be an issue before the time ?

Why advertise something as 'free' and then say that 'free' isn't actually what it means. I like the buffet analogy. Here is all you can eat, but if you come for seconds then the chef denies that.

Nowhere before the time was there any agreement about non being connected all the time.
If the marketing blurb says it's free and no download will count towards the cap, then I would assume that is what's meant - unless the terms and conditions say that.

If there is a 20GB 'fair usage' 'soft cap' then make it official.
Introduce a throttle or something similar after that.

and the weekend service has been removed from those accounts

So am I right in reading this as having targeted only certain users about this ?

It is not possible or in fact reasonable to expect "free usage" to mean you can download at line rate 100% of the time from the start of the free period to the end of the period, the same as "uncapped" does not actually mean "uncapped"

Was that communicated before the time ?
And then in reading this - if the same happens and we utilize the lines 100% in Nightrider time - will that be taken away as well ?

I'm just asking as I need to know if I need to start looking for a different ISP straight away - if it is anyway going to get to that then I might just as well set the change in motion now already.


Have you considered the fact that there will be heavy users as the new packages was being put together ?
And if that was considered - why not communicate this before the time ?

Yes - uncapped doesn't mean uncapped, but when you sign up for the others you do get the do's and don'ts before the time and you can decide whether you want to sign on or not. No one likes finding out what the boundaries are by only having stepped across them and being unceremoniously punished for it.

Just because you have a certain view on things don't make it general knowledge to everyone else.
These things need to be communicated properly - even that message that was up last night could have said why - even if it was just to say that we weren't using the service 'fairly'.

 

[Eisbein]

So if this was never communicated to us how the F%$# are we supposed to know?????? are we supposed to have some psychic ability?

This was what I was wondering as well...

If I had of been told that I need to stick to x amount of bandwidth a month, and the reasons explained, I would have been more than happy to comply.

what I resent is the fact that you are "punishing" us/throwing accusations at us for something that was NEVER COMMUNICATED TO US in the first place!

Very well put. I feel exactly the same.

Bringing out the stick before having explain the rules is a little bit stupid.

You were assuming that no one would have abided by the rules.
Fact is that we didn't know there were rules.

I can guarantee you that I would have looked at my usage and limited myself to the 20GB limit have I known there was one.

Try communication and explanation at some point.
You might be surprised what it can achieve without having to take out the stick.

 

[jetlee]

Hi

We offered free weekends with the understanding that people were not going to abuse it. There has been 162 weekend hours to date this month. At a 1:1 contention it is only possible to download 27Gigs during that timeframe on a 384Kb line, there are some guys that have done 25Gigs so far this month ( ie in 162 hours), that means that a download scheduler is switched on at the start of weekender time and switched off at the end of weekender time and the line is running full line rate for the entire weekend. There is no doubt that if sufficient people do this it is going to degrade the experience on the weekend for everyone , which it is doing. If you have the ability to schedule downloads, which you clearly do in this case, then it makes no difference if you schedule it in the nigthrider timeslot
12:30am to 7am (which is free every day of the week for 384Kb) or during the weekend. 7% of the entire weekend customer base was using 36% of the entire weekend bandwidth and the weekend service has been removed from those accounts.

To clear things up, only the weekend service has been removed, so if you were on the weekender plus paying R299 per month and had a 10Gig cap, capsaver and free weekends, from next month you will be charged R272, you will still have a 10Gig cap, your saved gigs will still be there but weekends for next month will not be free. If you are a download addict, which you must be to have this service removed in the first place, we suggest you go onto the nightrider plus service at R299 which gives you a 15 Gig cap, and free usage between 00:30 and 7am (for 384Kb circuits, different times for other circuits), which is far better value and forces you to download when there is nobody doing anything interactive.

It is not possible or in fact reasonable to expect "free usage" to mean you can download at line rate 100% of the time from the start of the free period to the end of the period, the same as "uncapped" does not actually mean "uncapped"

Regards
Laurie

Thanks for that Laurie, as a long time advocate of Cybersmart, (and recent abuser), this whole episode has left me feeling a little unhappy. While Im happy that this has been clarified, A little communication might have gone long way. Interestingly, my "abusive" account also comes along with 5 family member/friend accounts that are exactly the opposite (mom and pop accounts that use 1 gig a month) .. a statistic that you may or may not care to consider ... I am also a little peeved by the general tone of the response, that alludes to users abusing a service that was actually advertised as a "use the internet as much as you like on the weekend" account, instead of a "2 gig unthrottled usage that doesnt come off your cap and thereafter will .. or will be throttled a lot" account. If you want to implement a fair usage type policy, then perhaps try to look at the model that Afrihost has employed, and be up front with users, so that they can be prepared for the inevitable.

It really isnt a great day, when loyal clients that used to be rewarded with grow for life, are now encouraged to look elsewhere ... perhaps Cybersmart has outgrown us .. perhaps im being dramatic, but it certainly feels that way.

 

[Eisbein]

I just had a look - the past three months that I've been on the weekender package I have averaged out at 19.6GB per month...

Just sayin'.

 

[Hectic]

If what you guys are saying are indeed correct, then I have one word for CyberNotSoSmart.
PATHETIC!!!

 

[jtr]

I dont believe anyone questions the reasons for wanting to ensure an even distribution of available bandwidth and quality of speed, but the bottom line is, if Cybersmart had a reasonable expectation that users should not make full advantage of the "free usage" over weekends, it should have atleast made an effort to first notify customers via email - WHAT the fair usage policy is with regards to the "free usage over weekends" (with specific details) and that if they went over x-amount of bandwidth, the free usage would no longer apply to them.

Just out of respect for your customers, a little "COMMUNICATION" would have gone a long way, instead of the unilateral action that was taken. I downloaded just under 9GIGS, but I too got netted in for apparent abuse.

Wipe the slate clean for all Cybersmart users, give them the rules for the Free Usage over Weekends via email, and if they still go over next weekend- then institute the action to remove them from the service.

Hi

We offered free weekends with the understanding that people were not going to abuse it. There has been 162 weekend hours to date this month. At a 1:1 contention it is only possible to download 27Gigs during that timeframe on a 384Kb line, there are some guys that have done 25Gigs so far this month ( ie in 162 hours), that means that a download scheduler is switched on at the start of weekender time and switched off at the end of weekender time and the line is running full line rate for the entire weekend. There is no doubt that if sufficient people do this it is going to degrade the experience on the weekend for everyone , which it is doing. If you have the ability to schedule downloads, which you clearly do in this case, then it makes no difference if you schedule it in the nigthrider timeslot
12:30am to 7am (which is free every day of the week for 384Kb) or during the weekend. 7% of the entire weekend customer base was using 36% of the entire weekend bandwidth and the weekend service has been removed from those accounts.

To clear things up, only the weekend service has been removed, so if you were on the weekender plus paying R299 per month and had a 10Gig cap, capsaver and free weekends, from next month you will be charged R272, you will still have a 10Gig cap, your saved gigs will still be there but weekends for next month will not be free. If you are a download addict, which you must be to have this service removed in the first place, we suggest you go onto the nightrider plus service at R299 which gives you a 15 Gig cap, and free usage between 00:30 and 7am (for 384Kb circuits, different times for other circuits), which is far better value and forces you to download when there is nobody doing anything interactive.

It is not possible or in fact reasonable to expect "free usage" to mean you can download at line rate 100% of the time from the start of the free period to the end of the period, the same as "uncapped" does not actually mean "uncapped"

Regards
Laurie

 

[Avenue]

Wipe the slate clean for all Cybersmart users, give them the rules for the Free Usage over Weekends via email, and if they still go over next weekend- then institute the action to remove them from the service.

+1

 

[thaabietv]

So are all current Weekender subscribers being moved over or just the users who've been notified?

 

[Eh!]

Wipe the slate clean for all Cybersmart users, give them the rules for the Free Usage over Weekends via email, and if they still go over next weekend- then institute the action to remove them from the service.

Then what's the point of offering a "free weekend" package if its actually a fixed weekend cap?. Free usage means just that, free. Now this company is backtracking and amending terms and conditions in their favour. Consumers all have different needs and demands so please define "fair" usage for me.

 

[ponder]

Cybersmart is busy digging a hole for themselves.

You don't sell someone a product under the premise of free weekend usage and then call them abusers, reminds me of Afrihost.
Secondly there was never any AUP/FUP for users to reference.
There are ways of doing things and this is not the right way. They have every right to change their packages but it would help if they communicated this in advnce to their their clients including the AUP/FUP.

 

[Iscariot Jr]

Wipe the slate clean for all Cybersmart users, give them the rules for the Free Usage over Weekends via email, and if they still go over next weekend- then institute the action to remove them from the service.

+1

if they were to do this, say work on a one "notification/warning" system, things would go a lot better, and i know myself, that i would have amended my usage times, and amounts, if i were told to do so.

i mean, i've been with cybersmart for a few years now, and i gladly hand over my money to them every month, and some months i give them a little extra (for when i get a little internet happy), but this is not the way to go about it. if i knew now what i knew when i got the weekender package [middle of lat month], i definitely would've benn more selective with my usage.

if the same happens and we utilize the lines 100% in Nightrider time - will that be taken away as well ?

This is a very good point.
myself and a friend used to each have, what they now call a "plus" account, with night rider, and utilized every second of it, and then some, but we were never asked to slow down, or to cut back, so maybe that's the answer.

i think the main problem Cybersmart is having is the complaint's from users actually using the internet, and not "abusing" it, during the day, and not at night. so if that is the problem maybe the "nightrider plus" is their way of saying to the "abusers" here's a second chance, don't F___ it up.

 

[player108gp]

you guys need to read the description for weekender

Weekends are a time for fun; where you can kick back and do all the things you didn’t get to do during the busy work week. With this in mind, Cybersmart has introduced the Weekender — [B]where you get to do whatever you want on the internet between midnight on Friday and 5:59am on Monday.[/B]

By subscribing to one of Cybersmart's three Weekender packages, you can browse, surf, tweet and download to your heart’s content — and it will only count a fraction towards your Cap. Simply choose the Weekender package that suits your needs and let the Weekender begin…

WEEKENDER 1: For an extra R25 per month, increase your Cap by three times during Weekender time* for 384 and 512 circuits , not available for higher speed circuits.
WEEKENDER 2: For an extra R49 per month, increase your Cap by five times during Weekender time* for 384 and 512 circuits , not available for higher speed circuits.
WEEKENDER 3: For an extra R99, free internet during Weekender time* for 384 and 512 circuits , not available for higher speed circuits.


For example, if you are on Weekender 2 and you download 20 Gigs during Weekender time, then only 4 Gigs (20 Gigs divided by 5) will come off your Cap.
In order to subscribe to this service you need:

an ADSL circuit with Cybersmart
If you are not sure whether your ADSL circuit is with Telkom or Cybersmart, don't worry, continue with the application. If your line is still with Telkom, we will ask you to fill out another form, which will move your line to Cybersmart. There is NO downtime , the only difference is that the fee for the ADSL circuit rental will appear on our invoice and will no longer appear on your Telkom invoice and the amount that we will charge you will be roughly 10% less!


What if I sign up for one of the Weekender packages, and I decide that I don’t want it the following month. Can I downgrade?
Absolutely, like with all Cybersmart products, there is a standard downgrade fee of R200.

I want to download the latest movies without wiping out my Cap, will this service help me?
Absolutely — just schedule your downloads during Night Rider time by using a download manager such as flashget.

I want to backup my PC to an offsite facility without wiping out my Cap, will this service help me ?
Absolutely — just schedule your backup during Weekender time.

I have a 384KB circuit and my account has been capped before the weekend, will I still be able to browse for free on the weekend?
No, you have to have at least 1MB of your cap left to be able to browse for free on the weekend.



Just fill out this form and we'll upgrade your account for you immediately.

There is a R200 downgrade fee to convert back from Weekender to a regular account.



so if they tell you that you can do it yet without warning disable your account due to "abuse" which in everyones view is use by the definition of the package .then is this not false advertising and empty promises .

its like going to a buffet after you eat half a chicken the waiter comes to you and says move to cheap food only section cos we cant afford you here .

cybersmart needs to invest if they want to grow by reading lauries view on the pricing of uncapped , international bandwidth and content ratios . you get the feeling that they are hesitant on further investment on improvement of their network . and well that will eventually lead to their demise as soon(next 5 years) telkom will roll 20 mb/s and well cybersmart will be the only isp sitting in the dark ages with their inadequate bandwidth.

 

[ponder]

.then is this not false advertising and empty promises .

Yes I would say it is. Calling your clients abusers after the fact just rubs salt into the wounds

 

[Avenue]

flip player108gp thanks for putting this in perspective- This whole thing is completely out of line. Those terms and conditions do not give any indication that there is a fair use policy. In fact as you pointed out they use the words: download to your hearts content, which obviously is not true.

This whole experience has left me with a bad taste in my mouth

I hope mybb writes an article on this, because these sort of practices are becoming too frequent