DA Wants H.I.V Testing Without Consent

[w1z4rd]

R13 and jungleboy have a problem with IDs? You're kidding?

No, theyre not (I think). Their arguments though about their rights been affected are similar to those being used by filipinos of ID`s (they also perceive their rights and freedoms are being taken away).

I was asked by some filipinos what life was like being enslaved by an ID. I said "I really didnt even think it was an issue until you brought it up. I dont really think about it. It helps me show others that I am really who I say I am".

Who knows, perhaps this will bring down my insurance premiums as there is less risk in the market Though I really think we`ll cure aids before that happens.

 

[killadoob]

You guys want some perspective:

7000 people die a day from AIDS.

F the freedoms and privacy. If so many people cannot take measures to ensure they are not infected why do they even have freedom?

Freedom to go infect more people? Why on earth would someone have the choice to know if they are infected or not. FFS this is a massive issue that kills millions every year yet i hear freedoms and privacy .

Insane to think people can infect and infect and infect and still have freedom and privacy. It's actually crazy to listen to people who talk about freedom and privacy but are happy to sign up with fica and rica, no issues there but GOD forbid they should be ordered to take a test to ensure they are not infected with a mass killing disease and it's a huge issue.

Tell me something:

How do we go about stopping AIDS or have we basically given up? Seems to me we have given up and we just accept it is part of our lives everyday. No more cover up slogans, get tested. Now we have, no problem if you get infected we can keep you alive.

Sadly the more freedom we are given the more BS we get up to. The fact that people even have a choice in knowing their status is so fking stupid.

 

[porchrat]

My wife is going through SA medical law atm for her medical exams. In it there is a bit on patient rights. Like the right for the the person not to be tested. She says this creates massive problems as say the doctor is "pricked" with a needle that was used on a patient. The doctor currently has no right to ask for the HIV status.. .and that doctor has to go on a serious ARV treatment (whether the patient had HIV AIDS or not). ARVs are not nice, theyre a lot like chemo.... as in they do a lot of damage to do some good.

This very thing happened to me. I was pricked and the patient refused to divulge his status. I had to go onto a 28 day prophylactic course of ARVs and get HIV tests every few months for a year after the incident.

ARVs are not fun.

Still I respect the guy's right to not reveal his status even it did make my life hell for a month. I respect his right to not reveal his status, but he is still an idiot.

 

[w1z4rd]

This very thing happened to me. I was pricked and the patient refused to divulge his status. I had to go onto a 28 day prophylactic course of ARVs and get HIV tests every few months for a year after the incident.

ARVs are not fun.

Yeah, happened to my dentist sister-in-law as well.

 

[JungleBoy]

My wife is going through SA medical law atm for her medical exams. In it there is a bit on patient rights. Like the right for the the person not to be tested. She says this creates massive problems as say the doctor is "pricked" with a needle that was used on a patient. The doctor currently has no right to ask for the HIV status.. .and that doctor has to go on a serious ARV treatment (whether the patient had HIV AIDS or not). ARVs are not nice, theyre a lot like chemo.... as in they do a lot of damage to do some good.

Hey, that comes with the territory of being in the medical profession. Think of the emergency services personnel that have to tend to injured people (some unconscious). How do they deal with that situation if they get into contact with the patient's blood? Surely they wouldn't wait until the person regains conciousness before verifying whether they need ARV's or not.

 

[killadoob]

This very thing happened to me. I was pricked and the patient refused to divulge his status. I had to go onto a 28 day prophylactic course of ARVs and get HIV tests every few months for a year after the incident.

ARVs are not fun.

Still I respect the guy's right to not reveal his status even it did make my life hell for a month. I respect his right to not reveal his status, but he is still an idiot.

Why does he have that right though?

 

[w1z4rd]

Hey, that comes with the territory of being in the medical profession.

Yup, especially when the doctors freedoms are taken away and they have to do 2 years intern-ship and 1 year zuma year. Pity you not fighting for freedoms there huh? Double standards? Good enough for them, not good enough for you?

Think of the emergency services personnel that have to tend to injured people (some unconscious). How do they deal with that situation if they get into contact with the patient's blood? Surely they wouldn't wait until the person regains conciousness before verifying whether they need ARV's or not.

You are right, its certainly not a catch all. It certainly does help though, and I am highlighting but one small possible positive aspect of knowing most peoples status`s.

 

[w1z4rd]

Still I respect the guy's right to not reveal his status even it did make my life hell for a month. I respect his right to not reveal his status, but he is still an idiot.

I would be suspicious of anyone who refused to disclose that. If the role was reversed I wouldnt think twice about allowing myself to be tested. I dont think I would trust someone who wouldnt disclose their HIV status in such an encounter.

 

[biena]

This very thing happened to me. I was pricked and the patient refused to divulge his status. I had to go onto a 28 day prophylactic course of ARVs and get HIV tests every few months for a year after the incident.

ARVs are not fun.

Still I respect the guy's right to not reveal his status even it did make my life hell for a month. I respect his right to not reveal his status, but he is still an idiot.

So you would trust a test that was done who knows when ?

You have no choice but to go on the AVR's. That is where it fails for me, one test does not mean the result will stay negative !
For you to be able to trust the patients status the patient will have to have a test done every bloody day.

Knowing your own and your partners status is meaningless unless you also completely trust that non of you are sleeping around.

Reading through all these post the mindset that comes across is that once you test negative you never have to retest again and that your status will never change.

 

[porchrat]

Why does he have that right though?

because there is this negative stigma about it and people fear being discriminated against when their status is revealed. There is a perceived (and potentially real) downside to having your status known. Personally I think the stigma stupid and the result of ignorance. The man stepping forward and allowing me to run the test may have saved me a fsck load of pain but I do understand his not wanting to.

I respect that right, but I don't respect him for making me go through that course of ARVs when all he had to do was let me test him. I certainly wouldn't have revealed his results to anyone heck I am bound by law and an ethical code not to.

 

[porchrat]

So you would trust a test that was done who knows when ?

No I would test his blood on the machine in the lab that was down the corridor in addition to the recent test he would have had done if he actually knew his status.

You have no choice but to go on the AVR's. That is where it fails for me, one test does not mean the result will stay negative !
For you to be able to trust the patients status the patient will have to have a test done every bloody day.

Knowing your own and your partners status is meaningless unless you also completely trust that non of you are sleeping around.

Agreed. There is a window period and it varies from person to person.

 

[w1z4rd]

because there is this negative stigma about it and people fear being discriminated against when their status is revealed. There is a perceived (and potentially real) downside to having your status known. Personally I think the stigma stupid and the result of ignorance. The man stepping forward and allowing me to run the test may have saved me a fsck load of pain but I do understand his not wanting to.

I respect that right, but I don't respect him for making me go through that course of ARVs when all he had to do was let me test him. I certainly wouldn't have revealed his results to anyone heck I am bound by law and an ethical code not to.

I doubt its ganna happen, at least not for another 10 years. I could be wrong. In this case natural selection will take its course naturally... just the collateral damage is very very depressing.

 

[JungleBoy]

You guys want some perspective:

7000 people die a day from AIDS.

F the freedoms and privacy. If so many people cannot take measures to ensure they are not infected why do they even have freedom?

Freedom to go infect more people? Why on earth would someone have the choice to know if they are infected or not. FFS this is a massive issue that kills millions every year yet i hear freedoms and privacy .

Insane to think people can infect and infect and infect and still have freedom and privacy. It's actually crazy to listen to people who talk about freedom and privacy but are happy to sign up with fica and rica, no issues there but GOD forbid they should be ordered to take a test to ensure they are not infected with a mass killing disease and it's a huge issue.

Tell me something:

How do we go about stopping AIDS or have we basically given up? Seems to me we have given up and we just accept it is part of our lives everyday. No more cover up slogans, get tested. Now we have, no problem if you get infected we can keep you alive.

Sadly the more freedom we are given the more BS we get up to. The fact that people even have a choice in knowing their status is so fking stupid.

Calm down before you burst a vein there fellow...
1. Firstly, with FICA, RICA, etc you can tell the authorities to get stuffed because banking and telecommunications are neither mandatory nor basic human rights - got that?
2. Secondly, having unprotected sex is a choice (unless in cases of rape). So why blame the virus carrier when the victim also decided to play along in the dangerous game of roulette by having unprotected sex.
3. Thirdly, Education, Education, Education is the key to curbing the scourge of AIDS. You cannot regulate people's sexual behaviour but you can ensure that they make the right choices...OK (this ins't China, remember? )

 

[porchrat]

I would be suspicious of anyone who refused to disclose that. If the role was reversed I wouldnt think twice about allowing myself to be tested. I dont think I would trust someone who wouldnt disclose their HIV status in such an encounter.

Yea I'm guessing he was either positive or simply did not know, didn't want to know and wasn't sure. Either situation is not exactly ideal.

 

[killadoob]

Please education won't help for shyte, if retards cannot even go for regular testing HTF will education help?

It's not the standard of education that is lacking it is the mentality. You don't need to have much of an education to see your fellow humans dying and suffering from a disease. Unless i am very wrong and people are so fking stupid they can barely walk let alone think.

The simple fact of the matter is that people who cannot regulate themselves should have forced regulation. It's all good and well to say it is their choice to get infected or not but millions of children are also affected by this logic of who cares it is our choice.

If their choice is to take a chance and get infected perhaps it's better not to give them ARV's so the virus can actually start cleansing the gene pool a little faster and perhaps in a generation or two AIDS may be gone.

 

[JungleBoy]

Yup, especially when the doctors freedoms are taken away and they have to do 2 years intern-ship and 1 year zuma year. Pity you not fighting for freedoms there huh? Double standards? Good enough for them, not good enough for you?

Again, when one decides to become a doctor, it's because they want to and therefore not forced to. They are prepared to work in that environment. There are precautions that must be taken to minimise the chances of this happening and should this happen the doctor has access to ARV drugs. All prospective doctors are aware of this possibility, not so?

On the other hand, a patient seeking medical attention does not have any other choice and since health is a basic human right government has to provide for it. I really don't see any double standard here.

 

[JungleBoy]

Please education won't help for shyte, if retards cannot even go for regular testing HTF will education help?

It's not the standard of education that is lacking it is the mentality. You don't need to have much of an education to see your fellow humans dying and suffering from a disease. Unless i am very wrong and people are so fking stupid they can barely walk let alone think.

The simple fact of the matter is that people who cannot regulate themselves should have forced regulation. It's all good and well to say it is their choice to get infected or not but millions of children are also affected by this logic of who cares it is our choice.

If their choice is to take a chance and get infected perhaps it's better not to give them ARV's so the virus can actually start cleansing the gene pool a little faster and perhaps in a generation or two AIDS may be gone.

I meant education about the disease and various options and choices available to them.

 

[w1z4rd]

Again, when one decides to become a doctor, it's because they want to and therefore not forced to. They are prepared to work in that environment. There are precautions that must be taken to minimise the chances of this happening and should this happen the doctor has access to ARV drugs. All prospective doctors are aware of this possibility, not so?

On the other hand, a patient seeking medical attention does not have any other choice and since health is a basic human right government has to provide for it. I really don't see any double standard here.

Then make it compulsory to get tested if you want to use any government medical facility. Give them the same type of choice the doctor has. Now they have a choice to do it the responsible way, go back to their sangoma or hope they have a medical aid for private.

 

[porchrat]

Please education won't help for shyte, if retards cannot even go for regular testing HTF will education help?

It's not the standard of education that is lack it is the mentality. You don't need to have much of an education to see your fellow humans dying and suffering from a disease. Unless i am very wrong and people are fking stupid they can barely walk let alone think.

My best friend growing up when I was young was a black dude. One of the smartest guys I have ever met. Got himself a good tertiary education, got a great job at Eskom. Car, house in the suburbs, wife, 3 kids. Great guy. He contracted HIV (presumably thanks to his wife who just loved to sleep around) and despite my begging him to go onto ARVs he refused. Despite all he had learnt and his startling intelligence he died believing someone had placed a curse on him through the power of a sangoma. His wife believed the same and thus refused to have the children tested. The last time I saw his stupid b!tch of a wife she was standing there with her 3 kids and while she wouldn't let me get a closer look at them I could swear the eldest already had mouth ulcerations.

So yes I agree it isn't just an education thing. Even the intelligent well educated South Africans can fall prey to this destructive way of thinking.

 

[killadoob]

I meant education about the disease and various options and choices available to them.

Dude apart from the last 3 years we were getting government orders like you cannot believe, you have no idea the amount of money the government has spent on AIDS awareness. Mines like anglo, lonmin etc pumped business our way. The last 3 years or so there have been practically no orders for aids stuff, we were doing in nov about 2-3 bar at one stage just on aids stuff for local municipalities, mines, ngo's and so on. Believe me when i tell you the awareness and education was there but nobody cares. All they want is their free t-shirts and aids goodies. We were even supplying road shows and so on.

Aids awareness has failed so badly the government barely bothers any more, the mines have basically stopped spending plenty money on it as well. Sadly dude believe it or not the government was doing a shyte load and spending a shyte load on aids awareness and it got them nowhere. The only reason i know how it has failed is because we dealt with many people in government, mines and ngo's who ran programs, they don't have the funding for it anymore.

You cannot throw money at a problem when people think they have rights, choices and freedom nor can you educate them. There is only way to stop aids and that is to take a hardline and stamp it out. Make people fear it, nobody fears aids.