Dagga boy wins his case

[SykomantiS]

You want to punish him based on a hypothetical?

how about punishing him for what he has done?

This.

 

[Xarog]

so if a person has a personality type of thrill seeking, like for example they like to sky dive or go on roller coasters etc it is a gateway to hardcore drug use?

No, it is a gateway to more thrill seeking.

 

[RanzB]

how about punishing him for what he has done?

I'm fine with that, the idiot deserves it. I haven't argued otherwise. But the argument Sykomantis is making is stupid.

 

[Xarog]

This.

How is undermining a child's education a fitting punishment for anything?

 

[Mephisto_Helix]

no not at all, you are the one who for whatever reason decided to attack another forum user, I am glad you are on the righteous path brother.

so then tell me, why do you feel the need to defend drug use and dealing, especially in minors if it is not to justify your own habits?

I took issue with the ignorance and stupidity of those bolded claims. I took drugs in my youth, came from a normal household and later on started a company and contributed to society and with no ego, am intelligent. I don't agree with kids smoking (or selling) or drinking underage but it's what 90% of us did as kids, so it will happen. They shouldn't be tarred by the likes of the school and ignorant people for something trivial in the grand scheme of things.


P.S - I am on no righteous path, I gave up drinking and drugs because I wanted to *shrug*

They don't?

I'm pretty sure that if it's in the rules, the school is allowed to expel based on drug tests.

I do not wish to know what the future of this kid will be like.

not only a user but a seller also? and most likely to minors at that. can only imagine the household he was brought up in. the lot of them should be fixed.

 

[D3x!]

No, it is a gateway to more thrill seeking.

so then smoking dagga is a gateway

 

[SykomantiS]

How is undermining a child's education a fitting punishment for anything?

His education at that school. I'm not saying he's not allowed an education at all. The rules are simple, and he broke those rules.

 

[D3x!]

How is undermining a child's education a fitting punishment for anything?

so what do you propose? they continue to allow him to sell and use whilst attending a school of potential customers?

he could be home schooled? or he could get a fine education from inside a prison.

 

[D3x!]

I took issue with the ignorance and stupidity of those bolded claims. I took drugs in my youth, came from a normal household and later on started a company and contributed to society and with no ego, am intelligent. I don't agree with kids smoking (or selling) or drinking underage but it's what 90% of us did as kids, so it will happen. They shouldn't be tarred by the likes of the school and ignorant people for something trivial in the grand scheme of things.


P.S - I am on no righteous path, I gave up drinking and drugs because I wanted to *shrug*

all i needed to know.

 

[Xarog]

His education at that school. I'm not saying he's not allowed an education at all. The rules are simple, and he broke those rules.

If we agree to play a gambling game whereby if you lose I get your money, and if you refuse I get to kill you, the fact that you break the rules doesn't mean I'm really entitled to kill you even if that's what we agreed to.

The point is that the wrongness lies in the fact that they're trying to condition the education upon being drug free in the first place.

This doesn't detract from the fact that the kid is being stupid and shouldn't be smoking. But unless his smoking is somehow affecting his school performance or the performance of his fellow pupils, it's not really any of the school's business what the kid does in his own time.

so then smoking dagga is a gateway

No. The notion of a gateway is a red-herring. You're either born as a thrill seeker or not. If seeking thrills is something that appeals to you, then there are millions of gateways to choose from. If you're not a thrill seeker, then there's not really such a thing as a gateway because you won't feel a need to try something "more" just because what you have now is "good".

 

[D3x!]

If we agree to play a gambling game whereby if you lose I get your money, and if you refuse I get to kill you, the fact that you break the rules doesn't mean I'm really entitled to kill you even if that's what we agreed to.

The point is that the wrongness lies in the fact that they're trying to condition the education upon being drug free in the first place.

This doesn't detract from the fact that the kid is being stupid and shouldn't be smoking. But unless his smoking is somehow affecting his school performance or the performance of his fellow pupils, it's not really any of the school's business what the kid does in his own time.


No. The notion of a gateway is a red-herring. You're either born as a thrill seeker or not. If seeking thrills is something that appeals to you, then there are millions of gateways to choose from. If you're not a thrill seeker, then there's not really such a thing as a gateway because you won't feel a need to try something "more" just because what you have now is "good".

regarding the first part, it is the schools business that he is selling? and being a private school I would assume they can choose not to educate a drug user?

regarding the second, if someone is born a thrill seeker and never uses a softcore drug like dagga they could perhaps not progress to hardcore drugs surely?

 

[Xarog]

regarding the first part, it is the schools business that he is selling?

Only if he's selling to other pupils. But let's just say I have a dim view of his entrepreneurial spirit given the current legal dispensation around drug dealing.

and being a private school I would assume they can choose not to educate a drug user?

And you being a private person can choose to blow your own brains out. In both cases, it doesn't mean that the freedom/right to act equates to the action itself being reasonable.

regarding the second, if someone is born a thrill seeker and never uses a softcore drug like dagga they could perhaps not progress to hardcore drugs surely?

Someone who is born a thrill seeker will go along with whatever thrills them. If disobeying parents and engaging in risky behaviour is what does it for them, then they're probably going to use some kind of drugs no matter what the start is. And getting drunk on the sly will likely come before getting high on the sly. So by your argument alcohol is the gateway drug more than cannabis.

P.S. Nice to see an attempt at a reasoned argument from you; it makes for a nice change.

 

[D3x!]

Only if he's selling to other pupils. But let's just say I have a dim view of his entrepreneurial spirit given the current legal dispensation around drug dealing.


And you being a private person can choose to blow your own brains out. In both cases, it doesn't mean that the freedom/right to act equates to the action itself being reasonable.


Someone who is born a thrill seeker will go along with whatever thrills them. If disobeying parents and engaging in risky behaviour is what does it for them, then they're probably going to use some kind of drugs no matter what the start is. And getting drunk on the sly will likely come before getting high on the sly. So by your argument alcohol is the gateway drug more than cannabis.

P.S. Nice to see an attempt at a reasoned argument from you; it makes for a nice change.

they aren't being unreasonable in my opinion, I am sure many other parents don't want a drug user and seller amongst their impressionable grade 8 children.

ok but if the problem as you put it is thrill seeker people, which unfortunately we cannot stop producing, then the answer is harsher and better enforced drug laws?

I don't disagree with underage drinking being an issue but that isnt the debate here, it is probably easier for kids to get access to dagga than alcohol these days.

on a side note I wander which is worse during development, alcohol or dagga abuse.

 

[Xarog]

they aren't being unreasonable in my opinion, I am sure many other parents don't want a drug user and seller amongst their impressionable grade 8 children.

That's your opinion. And I do not doubt that the parents feel as you say they do. But they also tend to feel that way regarding pregnant teenagers and all sorts of other ne'erdowells. Doesn't mean their reaction is justified.

ok but if the problem as you put it is thrill seeker people, which unfortunately we cannot stop producing, then the answer is harsher and better enforced drug laws?

So you want to stop thrill seeking behaviour by making the behaviour more thrilling?

I don't disagree with underage drinking being an issue but that isnt the debate here, it is probably easier for kids to get access to dagga than alcohol these days.

But you're talking about thrill seeking and the way it manifests in terms of "gateways". If you want to label something as a gateway, then it's best to start at the first gateway, namely tobacco and alcohol.

on a side note I wander which is worse during development, alcohol or dagga abuse.

My bet is on alcohol. Alcohol addicts can suffer serious brain damage. I've never heard of a dagga addict being unable to function even while "clean", though.

 

[D3x!]

That's your opinion. And I do not doubt that the parents feel as you say they do. But they also tend to feel that way regarding pregnant teenagers and all sorts of other ne'erdowells. Doesn't mean their reaction is justified.

you think teenage pregnancy is normal acceptable thing?

So you want to stop thrill seeking behaviour by making the behaviour more thrilling?

i am not worried about thrill seeking behaviour, it is using the outlet of drugs to satisfy it that is the problem. and making it legal is definitely not the answer, and even so if it were legal it surely couldn't be legal for minors anyway. legalising dagga would make use by underage children far worse than it is now, i.e like cigarettes.

 

[Mach III]

An article like this is always going to bring up the debate of 'is smoking marijuana right?'

Try think look at it in this perspective. We breathe oxygen since the day we are born, and finish the day we die.

We're in a constant relationship with the trees; and if you take a look, you'll notice that the insides of our lungs
look like trees.

Our sense of reality is based on oxygen. We are pretty much 'high' on oxygen right now...
Try hold your breathe for a while, and see how things start changing, or hyperventilating...
(playing around with the quantities in our blood)

What marijuana does do is interact with our bodies cannabinoid receptors; and this gives the body pleasure... It also has a few quality uses too, such as curing cancer and other horrible afflictions.
So apart from these good qualities that it has, we are not designed to live in constant symbioses with it as we do with trees; and if you smoke too much, you'll get side effects... Loss of our experience of the unconscious - less dreams. Loss of temporary memory. A slight reactionary slowness. Not the worst side effects in the World, but not really desirable...

But, if a person wishes to alter their state of consciousness, that should be the persons choice. They should have every right in the world to play around with their experience of reality.

Aaaand then the question comes, what if they hurt someone... Well that should be treated the same way that people on oxygen should be treated. When a destructive force comes, the appropriate measures should be taken to stop it.

I'm glad this kid can go back to school and learn more about life, because I'm pretty sure him inhaling marijuana displays a curiousness towards life.

 

[Xarog]

you think teenage pregnancy is normal acceptable thing?

I don't think it's abnormal. And while I wouldn't encourage it, denying a pregnant girl an education because she's pregnant is stupid.

i am not worried about thrill seeking behaviour, it is using the outlet of drugs to satisfy it that is the problem.

So punish everyone because there may be thrill seekers who can't control themselves?

and making it legal is definitely not the answer, and even so if it were legal it surely couldn't be legal for minors anyway.

Indeed, but trying something early is nowhere near as much of a thrill as choosing something that's outright forbidden. Thus, making it legal actually is the answer as far as thrill seekers are concerned.

legalising dagga would make use by underage children far worse than it is now, i.e like cigarettes.

Considering its easier to buy dagga if you're underage than it is to buy cigarettes, I'm not sure how you plan to prove this assertion. You certainly don't see grade 8 children selling cigarettes on the street. If the primary distribution chain for selling dagga was through legitimate businesses like a supermarket, then it becomes much easier to place prescriptions upon the employees which forbids the sale of the substances to minors. They're more likely to obey those prescriptions than someone selling drugs that are outright illegal.

 

[D3x!]

I don't think it's abnormal. And while I wouldn't encourage it, denying a pregnant girl an education because she's pregnant is stupid.


So punish everyone because there may be thrill seekers who can't control themselves?


Indeed, but trying something early is nowhere near as much of a thrill as choosing something that's outright forbidden. Thus, making it legal actually is the answer as far as thrill seekers are concerned.


Considering its easier to buy dagga if you're underage than it is to buy cigarettes, I'm not sure how you plan to prove this assertion. You certainly don't see grade 8 children selling cigarettes on the street. If the primary distribution chain for selling dagga was through legitimate businesses like a supermarket, then it becomes much easier to place prescriptions upon the employees which forbids the sale of the substances to minors. They're more likely to obey those prescriptions than someone selling drugs that are outright illegal.

ah ok, I fully agree a pregnant girl shouldn't be denied an education, i could see how parents of other pupils wouldnt really want their kids to associate with them though.

i am not comparing buying cigarettes to dagga, i am comparing buying alcohol to dagga. if dagga was available from stores as per

I am not sure how people being denied an illegal substance because others can't control themselves is a punishment, if the stuff werent available there would be no issue with it and thrill seeking.

 

[Batista]

ah ok, I fully agree a pregnant girl shouldn't be denied an education, i could see how parents of other pupils wouldnt really want their kids to associate with them though.

i am not comparing buying cigarettes to dagga, i am comparing buying alcohol to dagga. if dagga was available from stores as per

I am not sure how people being denied an illegal substance because others can't control themselves is a punishment, if the stuff werent available there would be no issue with it and thrill seeking.

Why are you so anti marijuana?

 

[D3x!]

Why are you so anti marijuana?

despite the illegal status of it, it is harmful to youngsters, causes social issues and crime issues and opens people up to worse drug use.

see this is what this shouldn't become about again, but please do tell me why you are for it? and besides for you using it recreation-ally.

and all of these side benefits etc, would you still advocate them if you still couldn't legally use it for recreational use?