DA's alternative budget

Look what Israel achieved. From zero to picked on hero in 60 years.
 
Techne said:
Well, there appears to be a lot of gas. The Cape just needs to get fracking if they want to become independent. I can't say I am for that move though.
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I'm sure advances in alternative energy will eventually make it viable to self power. Its a question of innovation really.
 
Zyzzyva said:
Look what Israel achieved. From zero to picked on hero in 60 years.
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They got quite a bit of help a long the way from countries with religious connections, not to mention ones which have military strategies. Cape Town has neither, unless there are extremely rich Khoisan abroad willing to fund the sepretist.
 
B.O.F.H. said:
A little city with a mountain...

Don't you know that money just POURS from the mountain :p
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Just the fact that the Western Cape pays more taxes than is spent inside the Western Cape makes me think they'll do okay. We're in a global economy; we don't have to be self sustainable. We trade. You make it sound like the Western Cape is a charity case, which I don't think is the truth. How do states like Luxembourg survive and thrive? Singapore?
 
sutekj said:
Just the fact that the Western Cape pays more taxes than is spent inside the Western Cape makes me think they'll do okay. We're in a global economy; we don't have to be self sustainable. We trade. You make it sound like the Western Cape is a charity case, which I don't think is the truth. How do states like Luxembourg survive and thrive? Singapore?
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We are very much tied into the rest of the country (Gauteng based businesses, internal tourists, selling our products to the rest of the country). When you take us out of SA (And SA will not be happy with us), we are pretty much f***ked. Our GDP would drop precipitously
 
ghoti said:
Welfare states are great that way ;)
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Whatever makes you believe its possible. :p

On a side note, and yes i understand we are not in exactly the same situation, but still, its worth seeing how quickly some things can happen.

South Korea's real gross domestic product expanded by an average of more than 8 percent per year, from US$2.7 billion in 1962[17] to US$230 billion in 1989,[18] breaking the trillion dollar mark in 2007. Nominal GDP per capita grew from $103.88 in 1962[19] to $5,438.24 in 1989,[20] reaching the $20,000 milestone in 2007. The manufacturing sector grew from 14.3 percent of the GNP in 1962 to 30.3 percent in 1987. Commodity trade volume rose from US$480 million in 1962 to a projected US$127.9 billion in 1990. The ratio of domestic savings to GNP grew from 3.3 percent in 1962 to 35.8 percent in 1989.

The most significant factor in rapid industrialization was the adoption of an outward-looking strategy in the early 1960s. This strategy was particularly well suited to that time because of South Korea's poor natural resource endowment, low savings rate, and tiny domestic market. The strategy promoted economic growth through labor-intensive manufactured exports, in which South Korea could develop a competitive advantage. Government initiatives played an important role in this process. The inflow of foreign capital was greatly encouraged to supplement the shortage of domestic savings. These efforts enabled South Korea to achieve rapid growth in exports and subsequent increases in income.

By emphasizing the industrial sector, Seoul's export-oriented development strategy left the rural sector relatively underdeveloped. Except for mining, most industries were located in the urban areas of the northwest and southeast. Heavy industries generally were located in the south of the country. Factories in Seoul contributed over 25 percent of all manufacturing value-added in 1978; taken together with factories in surrounding Gyeonggi Province, factories in the Seoul area produced 46 percent of all manufacturing that year. Factories in Seoul and Gyeonggi Province employed 48 percent of the nation's 2.1 million factory workers. Increasing income disparity between the industrial and agricultural sectors became a serious problem by the 1970s and remained a problem, despite government efforts to raise farm income and improve rural living standards.
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Zyzzyva said:
Whatever makes you believe its possible. :p

On a side note, and yes i understand we are not in exactly the same situation, but still, its worth seeing how quickly some things can happen.
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South Korea is a great welfare state :) I see they have a hard working government that got involved and thought through stuff more carefully than a lot of other states in that area.
 
hawker said:
I don't see how a piece of land being the same size as another piece makes it any more or less viable for independence.
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its not a little back dorp someone in the freestate like oranje. Its piece of land as large as a number of other countries that have been able to build up successful economies.

B.O.F.H. said:
Ok, lets see... a company that has its HQ in CPT but does large portions of its business in the rest of SA.... why would they stay in CT if it was in a different country.

CT would lose alot of its shipping business because it would just move to EL, PE, DBN since it would be easier to ship it out of a single country than to go into another country to ship it out.

Alot of local tourism would decline purely because it would involve going into another country.

The military side of the economy in the WC would take a massive knock as Simon's Town would cease to exist in its current form. Any SANDF facilities would become deserted as all the people deployed there would be relocated to bases inside South Africa.
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They would stay in cape town because over the long term the SA economy will go to Sh## and the WC economy will grow, therefore giving them cheaper imports and a greater return on their investment. Its a safer bet.

Crime will decrease and so will corruption which will attract a lot more business as well as investors. If I knew my family would be safer there and have a better life, I would move, and so would many other skilled professionals, and so would many people in the SANDF

Government departments will actually pay their debts- aka hospital suppliers. At the moment the option for many of those suppliers would be move or go bankrupt.

So yes, it would take a couple of years, but I think companies would realise that in the long run it would be a better investment and so many would either move to the WC, or would continue operations in both countries.

Devill said:
Just wondering if you realise being second doesn't really mean that much.

Gauteng - 34% of GDP
Western Cape - 14.3% of GDP

See the difference? It is kind of like being second in the 100m sprint by only 4 seconds.....
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but its only 10% of the total land mass of SA.
So 10% is creating 14% of GDP sounds like they would be better off


but obviously this is just a fun topic, I can't imagine it happening any time soon.
 
JStrike said:
We are very much tied into the rest of the country (Gauteng based businesses, internal tourists, selling our products to the rest of the country). When you take us out of SA (And SA will not be happy with us), we are pretty much f***ked. Our GDP would drop precipitously
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That can change over the next 30 years if people apply their minds to the problem. The Cape needs to build its economy.

We need a silicon valley type situation to spring up.
 
Zyzzyva said:
That can change over the next 30 years if people apply their minds to the problem. The Cape needs to build its economy.
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They are building an information based economy with the DA, hence the reason for the 100mbps network. They are trying to turn Cape Town into the Silicon Valley of Africa. Smart move I think.
 
sutekj said:
Just the fact that the Western Cape pays more taxes than is spent inside the Western Cape makes me think they'll do okay. We're in a global economy; we don't have to be self sustainable. We trade. You make it sound like the Western Cape is a charity case, which I don't think is the truth. How do states like Luxembourg survive and thrive? Singapore?
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:erm: I think you should rea up a bit on Luxembourg.

Start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Luxembourg
 
Crime will decrease and so will corruption which will attract a lot more business as well as investors. If I knew my family would be safer there and have a better life, I would move, and so would many other skilled professionals, and so would many people in the SANDF
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What about the gang-torn areas? If they haven't sorted the problem out by now it's not as if seperating themselves is going to make it magically disapear.

Do you think that they will introduce the death penalty? Zille and co are against that IINM.
 
ave said:
its not a little back dorp someone in the freestate like oranje. Its piece of land as large as a number of other countries that have been able to build up successful economies.



They would stay in cape town because over the long term the SA economy will go to Sh## and the WC economy will grow, therefore giving them cheaper imports and a greater return on their investment. Its a safer bet.

Crime will decrease and so will corruption which will attract a lot more business as well as investors. If I knew my family would be safer there and have a better life, I would move, and so would many other skilled professionals, and so would many people in the SANDF

Government departments will actually pay their debts- aka hospital suppliers. At the moment the option for many of those suppliers would be move or go bankrupt.

So yes, it would take a couple of years, but I think companies would realise that in the long run it would be a better investment and so many would either move to the WC, or would continue operations in both countries.



but its only 10% of the total land mass of SA.
So 10% is creating 14% of GDP sounds like they would be better off


but obviously this is just a fun topic, I can't imagine it happening any time soon.
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I like how you just say things like they are facts.
"over the long term the SA economy will go to Sh## and the WC economy will grow" - suuuuuureeeeee
Because the ANC government hasn't been able to get the Gauteng economy to grow in the last 20 years.

Why don't you just come out and say it. You think the ANC can do no right and [insert predominantly white party name here] can do no wrong.
And since the ANC is predominantly black, it becomes very clear what you are saying
 
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ave said:
but its only 10% of the total land mass of SA.
So 10% is creating 14% of GDP sounds like they would be better off


but obviously this is just a fun topic, I can't imagine it happening any time soon.
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:erm: and Gauteng is about 15% of the Western Cape's area....

I would advise taking the population rather than the "land mass" if you want to prove anything.
 
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