DA's alternative budget

Zyzzyva said:
Well some people will mention practical problems, like farming, lack of economy, eishkom, etc. But more than anything, i think the biggest stumbling block is that they still believe there is a shot they can win the national vote and somehow transform the country fast enough to keep power while the ANC go into hyperbrainwashing propoganda mode blaming poverty on the DA, mines, big business, and the rich white man. Poverty over the long term manifests as a product of individual choices, and at the end of the day you cant control what people choose to do with themselves, no matter how hard you try.

Removing poverty is essentially impossible when you have an existing population who are essentially ruined in terms of education and the like, with no real signs of improvement over the last 18 years or so. While things can be improved over the long term, poverty will persist for generations to come because culturally there is just so much baggage preventing them from becoming "first world". You just have to look at zimbabwe to see education is not a panacea. Most Zim people i run into - and have even hired - are extremely educated(university educated). Its the little details found in culture that matters the most. Not a piece of paper and the ability to do some maths or write a poem. Look at the crap Vioadmin and co so eloquently and capably spout. Getting his ilk to think properly is a slightly bigger problem than just sending them to an average school.

Eventually people will come to the conclusion separation is the only option.
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I think you misread the situation entirely...

The ANC is losing ground constantly, therefore there is a very real chance that the DA will win the national vote in the future.
 
Zyzzyva said:
Not yet. But that needs to change over the next 50 years.

And if not the cape, some other part of the country.
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You can have Robin Island... as long as you don't mind us using it as target practice for our expired ammunition...
 
Zyzzyva said:
Well some people will mention practical problems, like farming, lack of economy, eishkom, etc. But more than anything, i think the biggest stumbling block is that they still believe there is a shot they can win the national vote and somehow transform the country fast enough to keep power while the ANC go into hyperbrainwashing propoganda mode blaming poverty on the DA, mines, big business, and the rich white man. Poverty over the long term manifests as a product of individual choices, and at the end of the day you cant control what people choose to do with themselves, no matter how hard you try.

Removing poverty is essentially impossible when you have an existing population who are essentially ruined in terms of education and the like, with no real signs of improvement over the last 18 years or so. While things can be improved over the long term, poverty will persist for generations to come because culturally there is just so much baggage preventing them from becoming "first world". You just have to look at zimbabwe to see education is not a panacea. Most Zim people i run into - and have even hired - are extremely educated(university educated). Its the little details found in culture that matters the most. Not a piece of paper and the ability to do some maths or write a poem. Look at the crap Vioadmin and co so eloquently and capably spout. Getting his ilk to think properly is a slightly bigger problem than just sending them to an average school.

Eventually people will come to the conclusion separation is the only option.
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Good points raised.
 
While I am neither for nor against the WC becoming independent, one thing you must keep in mind is that the resources it has available will be used more effectively.

Less corruption, more efficient use of tax money will mean that it can outperform what it does right now.

Not to mention that if they drop most of the "social state" BS* and focus on job creation and education the future will be even brighter for the WC.

*BS that supports the (veee deemaaand! attitude)
 
B.O.F.H. said:
Ahhh the lovely "Cape Independence" BS again...
its never gonna happen, and anyone who thinks it will, and that it is even vaguely possible for the Cape to survive on its own is a complete and utter bloody moron.
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Yeah because everyone knows they need this sinking ship tied to their ankles.
Western cape is roughly the size of England or about 3x the size of switzerland, and is the second largest contributor to the SA economy, so with that in mind, please enlighten us as to why it could never work.

I do agree however that its unlikely to happen.
 
ave said:
Yeah because everyone knows they need this sinking ship tied to their ankles.
Western cape is roughly the size of England or about 3x the size of switzerland, and is the second largest contributor to the SA economy, so with that in mind, please enlighten us as to why it could never work.

I do agree however that its unlikely to happen.
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Ok, lets see... a company that has its HQ in CPT but does large portions of its business in the rest of SA.... why would they stay in CT if it was in a different country.

CT would lose alot of its shipping business because it would just move to EL, PE, DBN since it would be easier to ship it out of a single country than to go into another country to ship it out.

Alot of local tourism would decline purely because it would involve going into another country.

The military side of the economy in the WC would take a massive knock as Simon's Town would cease to exist in its current form. Any SANDF facilities would become deserted as all the people deployed there would be relocated to bases inside South Africa.
 
ave said:
Yeah because everyone knows they need this sinking ship tied to their ankles.
Western cape is roughly the size of England or about 3x the size of switzerland, and is the second largest contributor to the SA economy, so with that in mind, please enlighten us as to why it could never work.

I do agree however that its unlikely to happen.
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I don't see how a piece of land being the same size as another piece makes it any more or less viable for independence.
 
B.O.F.H. said:
I think you misread the situation entirely...

The ANC is losing ground constantly, therefore there is a very real chance that the DA will win the national vote in the future.
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A small percentage of blacks are beginning to vote DA, but only after 18 years of utter idiocy by the ANC, which shows how hard it is to get people to see the light given the pressures working against "enlightenment". Keeping those votes is going to be near impossible when the DA is in power, because then all poverty will be the DA's fault. The point i was making is poverty(the key to the DA staying in power) is almost impossible to eradicate given the cultural issues so ingrained in most of the population causing the poverty in the first place.

In time, after the dream fails enough times, people will come to realisation separation is the only answer, be it in the cape(which i agree is complicated) or somewhere else in the country.
 
Species8472 said:
While I am neither for nor against the WC becoming independent, one thing you must keep in mind is that the resources it has available will be used more effectively.

Less corruption, more efficient use of tax money will mean that it can outperform what it does right now.

Not to mention that if they drop most of the "social state" BS* and focus on job creation and education the future will be even brighter for the WC.

*BS that supports the (veee deemaaand! attitude)
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The cape needs to spend the next 20-30 years building itself up to the point where it can sustain itself.
 
Zyzzyva said:
The cape needs to spend the next 20-30 years building itself up to the point where it can sustain itself.
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They need to build extra power generation capacity, which would need building new power stations. This would mean they'd need to import coal unless they go nuclear, but I don't think the cape hipsters would like that. :p
 
Well, there appears to be a lot of gas. The Cape just needs to get fracking if they want to become independent. I can't say I am for that move though.
 
Zyzzyva said:
The cape needs to spend the next 20-30 years building itself up to the point where it can sustain itself.
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So how exactly would the build up?

They'd need new power stations (which would need to be built independently of Eskom) and it couldn't be wind or solar because currently that doesn't provide baseload power generation that is reliable enough.

They would need to beef up whatever public service exists since all the functions that are currently in pretoria would need to be duplicated in the WC.

They would need to reimburse all the companies whose infrastructure they'd need to appropriate to make their independence even have a CHANCE of succeeding.
 
B.O.F.H. said:
So how exactly would the build up?

They'd need new power stations (which would need to be built independently of Eskom) and it couldn't be wind or solar because currently that doesn't provide baseload power generation that is reliable enough.

They would need to beef up whatever public service exists since all the functions that are currently in pretoria would need to be duplicated in the WC.

They would need to reimburse all the companies whose infrastructure they'd need to appropriate to make their independence even have a CHANCE of succeeding.
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You would just continue buying power from Eskom.

Having an independent Cape does not mean that you would cut off all contact with SA and the world.

We would be a global city State. Kind of like Singapore.
 
Apache said:
You would just continue buying power from Eskom.

Having an independent Cape does not mean that you would cut off all contact with SA and the world.

We would be a global city State. Kind of like Singapore.
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Ok, answered the power aspect... though you will pay more for the power.

You fail to understand what being a "country" entails.. its not just "oh we're seperate from SA, but nothing changes".. it means you have to have a full government, you will need police force to be beefed up as you will now have a border to patrol..

City State?!?!?! CPT has even LESS chance of surviving on its own than the entire WC....
 
hawker said:
Singapore is different because it's basically the hub for the whole of South East Asia. Cape Town is what?
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A little city with a mountain...

Don't you know that money just POURS from the mountain :p
 
ave said:
Yeah because everyone knows they need this sinking ship tied to their ankles.
Western cape is roughly the size of England or about 3x the size of switzerland, and is the second largest contributor to the SA economy, so with that in mind, please enlighten us as to why it could never work.

I do agree however that its unlikely to happen.
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Just wondering if you realise being second doesn't really mean that much.

Gauteng - 34% of GDP
Western Cape - 14.3% of GDP

See the difference? It is kind of like being second in the 100m sprint by only 4 seconds.....
 
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