DA's alternative budget

[Avenue]

You cannot use a couple of examples and then apply it to an entire set. It is a logical fallacy.

wrong. How do we gather statistics. We focus on a small number of people that are indicative of the group we are studying, and from that we can judge with reasonable accuracy the behaviours of the whole.

Those are not just two or three isolated incidents, but are typical of the kinds of things that are happening in every department on a daily basis.

I have explained to you the challenges associated with thing like healthcare, roads etc. Yes, there might be corruption, and wrong people in wrong jobs, and they might have contributed to the state of certain facilities, departments, etc
That is however *not* the reason why our hospitals are not as good as they were, or our roads, crime etc (It explains partly why they are not as good as they *could* be. However, economic policy is a greater explanation)

Okay, but here is the question: How good could they be?
Are they running at 90% efficiency or 10%
Corruption and wrong people in the wrong jobs isn't something to gloss over. Its a huge problem.

And if you want to keep sprouting your racist comments, please direct them in support of the FF+ or something and leave the DA out of it.

Unfortunately this is typical of the mindset in the country. One that is holding it back as much as anything else. You see this in the ANC all the time. As soon as people challenge their actions, they write it off as racism because that way they are not accountable.
I still challenge you to point to a single racist comment I have made.

Just BTW, The DA is the most racially diverse party in the country. To call it a white party is insulting to everything they stand for.

I would happily fall under the leadership of Patricia De Lille or Mmusi Maimane or even Trevor Manuel if you want an ANC representative

 

[Nicko]

We were close to cyclical debt (Think Greece) in 1994. We are out of that now.
They managed to pull off the worlds largest free housing scheme (Not without it's own set of problems, but on the whole, very impressive)
They managed to keep the economy growing, despite taking on 45 million extra people (Who are largely unemployable)
etc etc
Read up on SA yourself instead of just believing hearsay

But either you are trolling me, or you actually believe the racist nonsense like Ava, which is deeply disturbing

Jesus christ JStrike your obession with race makes you sound like an idiot. Your other points could make the most sense in the world, but no-one wants to listen to someone who believes that anyone who disagrees with their viewpoint is a full blown racist. I can't take people like you seriously and will continue to do so until you realize the disdain felt towards groups such as the ANC has nothing to do with race, it has to do with incompency.

Before you start crying racism... I am far from racist, and your obsession with race makes me wonder if you not racist yourself.

 

[Fudzy]

Jesus christ JStrike your obession with race makes you sound like an idiot.

Where did he mention race?

 

[JStrike]

wrong. How do we gather statistics. We focus on a small number of people that are indicative of the group we are studying, and from that we can judge with reasonable accuracy the behaviours of the whole.

Those are not just two or three isolated incidents, but are typical of the kinds of things that are happening in every department on a daily basis.



Okay, but here is the question: How good could they be?
Are they running at 90% efficiency or 10%
Corruption and wrong people in the wrong jobs isn't something to gloss over. Its a huge problem.


Unfortunately this is typical of the mindset in the country. One that is holding it back as much as anything else. You see this in the ANC all the time. As soon as people challenge their actions, they write it off as racism because that way they are not accountable.
I still challenge you to point to a single racist comment I have made.

Just BTW, The DA is the most racially diverse party in the country. To call it a white party is insulting to everything they stand for.

I would happily fall under the leadership of Patricia De Lille or Mmusi Maimane or even Trevor Manuel if you want an ANC representative

It is a logical fallicy, quite similar to a stawman argument.

Im not glossing over corruption. I am taking issue with your statement about how good SA used to be and how rubish it it now. Which is just pure racism (By ignoring the facts to support your view that the ANC/black governments are bad, and that Governments only support 10% of the populace are good)

I am fully aware of how diverse the DA is. When I say the DA is a white party, it is referring to the fact that it is the party most whites vote for. And similarly in the ANC.

In the DA we acknowledge how far we have come as a country, and do not think hospitals are bad now simply because the ANC has mismanaged them (We do however we believe we would manage them better, or better yet, many of these facilities could be privatized using voucher systems etc. Which is a different economic policy view). There is a reality to acknowledge
We also (very officially and public) support AA and BEE (Albeit in a different implementation). And then we have to deal with our "supporters" who go racists rants about AA and BEE, painting us in a bad light (This isn't directed at you. You haven't said anything about AA and BEE. But the effect is similar to the party)

 

[WilD_CaT]

Just the fact that the Western Cape pays more taxes than is spent inside the Western Cape makes me think they'll do okay. We're in a global economy; we don't have to be self sustainable. We trade. You make it sound like the Western Cape is a charity case, which I don't think is the truth. How do states like Luxembourg survive and thrive? Singapore?

You've hit the nail on the head.

However saying that, I think most people are assuming that there will be tension between any state that wants to secede and its former nation. Hence in this example, the WC won't be able to rely on the country as a trading partner and if SA turns hostile (Trade embargoes on shipping lanes and airspace) then the WC cannot rely on trade with others, and thus would have to be completely self-suffcient.

Theoretically any group should be able to secede from any other, it's one of the hallmark's of freedom and liberty (This does not include breaking a contract). Thus I have no problem with the WC and its people seceding, hell, if I thought they could and would do it I would probably try even live there, assuming I don't go overseas at some point.

 

[hawker]

but its only 10% of the total land mass of SA.
So 10% is creating 14% of GDP sounds like they would be better off

If you want to put it in terms of % land area to % GDP output, Gauteng still completely destroys the WC.

Please think before you post.

 

[Nicko]

Where did he mention race?

Why don't you just come out and say it. You think the ANC can do no right and [insert predominantly white party name here] can do no wrong.
And since the ANC is predominantly black, it becomes very clear what you are saying

I am white, live in the WC and am a DA member. It is "supporters" such as yourself that paint us with your own racism, bringing down the party

Who cares what race the person who is posting is, as long as his points are valid.

And these borderline racist attacks take away from valid criticism of the ANC government and their decisions

Which was in response to.

Any idiot government could have achieved what they achieved. Far more is possible; not achieving more is frankly shameful.

Donno how that comment is racist..

But either you are trolling me, or you actually believe the racist nonsense like Ava, which is deeply disturbing

There arguments never mentioned anything about race (I could be wrong). They did come up with some controversial points such as the apartheid government having a stronger economy, whether that is right or wrong there isn't anything racist about this comments. It would only be racist if they said that it was such a good economy because it was run by whites. Which then it would be fine to call the person out for racism.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Wow.. the level of stupid in this thread astounds me...

 

[JStrike]

Who cares what race the person who is posting is, as long as his points are valid.


Which was in response to.

Donno how that comment is racist..


There arguments never mentioned anything about race (I could be wrong). They did come up with some controversial points such as the apartheid government having a stronger economy, whether that is right or wrong there isn't anything racist about this comments. It would only be racist if they said that it was such a good economy because it was run by whites. Which then it would be fine to call the person out for racism.

You can be racist without mentioning race. Racism isn't always blunt. Sometimes it is very subtle, but just as damaging

The post I'm quoting below from Ave is very racist. While corruption is certainly a massive problem, it is *not* the cause of the problem quoted below. It is simply an attempt to paint white=good, blak=bad, without understand even the most basic of economics

"When the anc took over the Rand dollar exchange rate was R3 to the dollar. Its now 7.6. The hospitals, schools and municipalities were working. It was also safe to walk the streets.
I only have to open my eyes to see that we are in a downward spiral and that this downward spiral will continue.

And no, its has nothing to do with Black vs White, it has to do with corrupt vs incorrupt.
The current leaders want to line their pockets and so all the decisions they make will be based on that. ie muzzling of the press, stripping the constitutional court of its powers etc etc. "