Data bundle validity periods are essential to managing limited network resources

[WollieVerstege]

If a network isn't reliable, cost effective or profitable for its shareholders, then by what other measure do you think it is effectively managed? The cellular network providers it at least two of those objectively. And I would say given the tiny middle class market in SA, also hit the cost effective part as well.

Eskom is the furthest thing from well managed. They did not match the price of their offering with the demand, they gave away huge amounts of electricity to favoured clients (read aluminium smelters and the destitute), they ran out of it for years, and they are having colossal increases in costs to subsidise their bloated workforce.

Double whoosh!
Look, your confirmation bias is clearly making you read thing that are not there. Check yourself.

 

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

As for their network resources being limited… that’s the biggest lie I’ve heard to date…

 

[Jan]

View attachment 1851791
vs Cell C:
View attachment 1851790

That's cool and all, but there is an apples to apples comparison you can be making:



Ergo, shorter expiry reduces price.

Seeing the MVNOs be cheaper than their host networks (Capitec is Cell C and MegsApp is MTN) is great. It is a testament that the wholesale model is working.

 

[Swa]

That's cool and all, but there is an apples to apples comparison you can be making:

View attachment 1851793View attachment 1851794

Ergo, shorter expiry reduces price.

Seeing the MVNOs be cheaper than their host networks (Capitec is Cell C and MegsApp is MTN) is great. It is a testament that the wholesale model is working.

Still ignores that it's cheaper than any other network data out there. Networks can up their prices it will still be cheaper, they'll only lose more business. And you're using the wrong comparison


Now which one is less expensive and will be the go to for anyone using less than 5GB a month? Sure there might be some short term pain but it looks to me like most people will benefit. In the long run data will only get cheaper and more people will buy larger bundles as they don't have to worry about expiry.

 

[Jan]

Still ignores that it's cheaper than any other network data out there.

Yeesh, shill much? Look, it's a good offering. That said, I'm always dubious about "CHEAPEST EVAR!!!11one" claims because I bet someone on this forum could find cheaper data by exploiting some kind of rewards programme or free allocation.

And you're using the wrong comparison

You are ignoring that there are people in this country, an all-too-large number, sadly, who subsist on R5–R10 per day. They can't afford to drop R239 at the start of the month and then carefully manage their usage and hope some background process doesn't steal it all.

 

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

Yeesh, shill much? Look, it's a good offering. That said, I'm always dubious about "CHEAPEST EVAR!!!11one" claims because I bet someone on this forum could find cheaper data by exploiting some kind of rewards programme or free allocation.


You are ignoring that there are people in this country, an all-too-large number, sadly, who subsist on R5–R10 per day. They can't afford to drop R239 at the start of the month and then carefully manage their usage and hope some background process doesn't steal it all.

The networks know this and they target them with the expiry the hardest because that’s how f-ed up and despicable these cartels are

 

[Swa]

Yeesh, shill much? Look, it's a good offering. That said, I'm always dubious about "CHEAPEST EVAR!!!11one" claims because I bet someone on this forum could find cheaper data by exploiting some kind of rewards programme or free allocation.


You are ignoring that there are people in this country, an all-too-large number, sadly, who subsist on R5–R10 per day. They can't afford to drop R239 at the start of the month and then carefully manage their usage and hope some background process doesn't steal it all.

Shill? I find it resentful that you of all people here will use such a term against a good argument. In fact it looks more like mybb is shilling for the networks.

Now using your own examples, a 11GB expiring bundle costs less than 17% less. It doesn't seem like that much of a difference. In fact if networks are relying on "spoilage" to keep prices down it means most people use less than 80% of their bundles in fact making them more expensive. The 11GB is also not the only non-expiring bundle. If networks up their prices by 20% I'm sure most people will be able to rather buy a 2GB non-expiring bundle that lasts them longer than a 1GB expiring bundle.

 

[Swa]

The networks know this and they target them with the expiry the hardest because that’s how f-ed up and despicable these cartels are

Exactly. They don't give squat about the poor. It's mostly the poor that use these small expiring network bundles and they're fleecing them for all they're worth. Those who can afford it have moved to MVNOs and other options where they are saving on bulk data and non-expiry.

 

[Swa]

Even Cell C's own. Can be extended indefinitely for 30 days at a time. If only networks would try to get more people on LTE devices.

 

[Jan]

Shill? I find it resentful that you of all people here will use such a term against a good argument. In fact it looks more like mybb is shilling for the networks.

Turnabout is fair play. Cool, let's focus on the topic at hand. Language like "it's cheaper than any other network data out there" is over the top and I wanted to flag it.

If networks up their prices by 20% I'm sure most people will be able to rather buy a 2GB non-expiring bundle that lasts them longer than a 1GB expiring bundle.

What do you base that assertion on?

In lieu of data, I will simply assume the counter position and say that most people in this country are too poor to afford a 20% increase.

Add to that the issue of background updates that can drain people's data, and what you are proposing could be catastrophic for a lower-income household.

 

[LCBXX]

Why mobile data bundles must expire in South Africa

Cell C has explained that expiry periods for minutes, data, and SMS allocations are essential to managing the limited network resources that mobile services require to operate.

“Customers pay for access to these limited resources, and validity periods ensure that these resources are equitably distributed across the customer base,” a spokesperson told MyBroadband.

Cell C admitting that shitty network infrastructure, coupled with expiring data/sms/minutes/etc, is by design?

Curious.

 

[The_MAC]

Seeing the MVNOs be cheaper than their host networks (Capitec is Cell C and MegsApp is MTN) is great. It is a testament that the wholesale model is working.

MVNO's are nothing more than elaborate loyalty programs, instead of "Ebucks" you get Gigs, often subsidized as part of a larger strategy, so it's not a 100% reflection of the actual price of data, and possibly not sustainable in the long run, not with the increase in operating costs of the operators.

 

[Jan]

If only networks would try to get more people on LTE devices.

They are. Vodacom and MTN trialled offering below-cost LTE devices to people in lower-income neighbourhoods and are expanding the offer.

Not out of the kindness of their hearts but because it makes economic sense — they want to switch off 2G and 3G and can only do that if most people are on at least LTE.

 

[Jan]

MVNO's are nothing more than elaborate loyalty programs, instead of "Ebucks" you get Gigs, often subsidized as part of a larger strategy, so it's not a 100% reflection of the actual price of data, and possibly not sustainable in the long run, not with the increase in operating costs of the operators.

Maybe with companies like Capitec where telecoms is not their core business.

However, with something like Afrihost Air Mobile, Axxess Mobile, MegsApp, etc. the product must be sustainable on its own or it won't work.

 

[SilverCode]

“This would also eliminate product differentiation, stifling competition and innovation, as all operators would be constrained to a uniform three-year validity model.”

Lol, what innovation? You just set random prices for random amount of data that lasts random periods. You can do this with slips of paper and 3 hats.

When these people try and justify their greediness, it just exposes it more.

 

[Swa]

Turnabout is fair play. Cool, let's focus on the topic at hand. Language like "it's cheaper than any other network data out there" is over the top and I wanted to flag it.

It's the cheapest general purpose data I've seen. Does not look to be so over the top to me.

What do you base that assertion on?

In lieu of data, I will simply assume the counter position and say that most people in this country are too poor to afford a 20% increase.

Add to that the issue of background updates that can drain people's data, and what you are proposing could be catastrophic for a lower-income household.

Ok, so data on the same network 17% cheaper when buying an expiring bundle. Why has no network stated how much prices will increase? It's all very iffy statements about increased spectrum and how non-expiry can undo the benefits but no commitments. You don't find that strange?

You say that most people are too poor to pay R19 for a 220MB non-expiring bundle. But those same people are expected to pay R7.50 for a 250MB bundle that only lasts them 7 days, and that's MVNO and not even network data. I would in all honesty really like to know how that argument makes sense when it's poorer people being fleeced the most.

I find it really ironic that mybb which used to be the consumer champion would take the stance of the networks here and not bring up these points and comparisons. If what networks claim is true they are relying on most people not using their whole bundle meaning they are in fact already paying more. If not then it won't make any difference.

In fact the whole poor argument reminds me of the poor person not being able to buy the 5kg pack of rice so they must pay 5x more for the 250g packs of rice. The fact that poor people can't afford a huge upfront cost for large non-expiring bundles does not negate the fact that they are still not better off with small expiring ones.

They are. Vodacom and MTN trialled offering below-cost LTE devices to people in lower-income neighbourhoods and are expanding the offer.

Not out of the kindness of their hearts but because it makes economic sense — they want to switch off 2G and 3G and can only do that if most people are on at least LTE.

Well that's a step in the right direction, but I assume most of those devices will not have dual sim slots and even be network locked and not be able to take advantage of the cheap data on offer. Networks know it's data costs keeping people down when they pay multiple times the device cost in a year. If more people had their hands on cheap data they could afford to buy the devices that would enable cheap data so it's in fact a cycle keeping them captive.

 

[Swa]

Cell C admitting that shitty network infrastructure, coupled with expiring data/sms/minutes/etc, is by design?

Curious.

I don't know about that. I was able to reach over 36Mbps the other night. Their network has improved a lot over the years. Funny thing is it's the shitty MTN network keeping it from working in the places I want it to.

 

[EmmanuelGoldstein]

The last time I went into detail about how devious the networks were I ended up with death threats and was hit with a gag order… so take what you need from that. I only use their networks as a last resort.

 

[Jan]

You say that most people are too poor to pay R19 for a 220MB non-expiring bundle. But those same people are expected to pay R7.50 for a 250MB bundle that only lasts them 7 days, and that's MVNO and not even network data. I would in all honesty really like to know how that argument makes sense when it's poorer people being fleeced the most.

To you, the difference between R7.50 and R19 is nothing. That is not so for a large portion of our population, unfortunately.

BTW: What is wrong with *and*? Why must it be either-or? Let upstart operators like Cell C and Telkom, and MVNOs like Megsapp offer non-expiring data and let the people vote with their wallets.

I find it really ironic that mybb which used to be the consumer champion would take the stance of the networks here and not bring up these points and comparisons.

Anything that doesn't require me to make assumptions about how poor people pay for these services, I would raise. But I will not make any assumptions about something I have zero experience in and no data for.

Personally, I don't want to pay 20% more for my 10GB SuperFlex service just so the data doesn't expire.

If what networks claim is true they are relying on most people not using their whole bundle meaning they are in fact already paying more. If not then it won't make any difference.

Or the breakage is already priced in. Everyone always assumes the worst, and that is not always fair.

In fact the whole poor argument reminds me of the poor person not being able to buy the 5kg pack of rice so they must pay 5x more for the 250g packs of rice.

Yes, that is unfortunately how it works. 5x is a little excessive, but if you can go to Makro and buy in bulk it's always cheaper than buying small quantities at Spar.

The fact that poor people can't afford a huge upfront cost for large non-expiring bundles does not negate the fact that they are still not better off with small expiring ones.

So we should just remove the 250g bags of rice from the market so they can starve? I don't understand your argument here.

Well that's a step in the right direction, but I assume most of those devices will not have dual sim slots and even be network locked and not be able to take advantage of the cheap data on offer.

Why assume when you can read?

Truth about MTN’s R99 smartphones

MTN has revealed the retail price of the smartphone it is distributing to some prepaid customers for R99.

mybroadband.co.za

Dual SIM. It wouldn't be unusual for one SIM slot to be locked, and the other unlocked in a low-cost/subsidised device like that.

Networks know it's data costs keeping people down when they pay multiple times the device cost in a year. If more people had their hands on cheap data they could afford to buy the devices that would enable cheap data so it's in fact a cycle keeping them captive.

This statement makes no sense to me. It's all relative because the cost of devices range everywhere from sub-R1,000 to R70k.

By that measure, your argument would state that even my extremely good value for money SuperFlex or SuperFlex-based package is overpriced.

 

[Mariner]

Why mobile data bundles must expire in South Africa

Cell C has explained that expiry periods for minutes, data, and SMS allocations are essential to managing the limited network resources that mobile services require to operate.

“Customers pay for access to these limited resources, and validity periods ensure that these resources are equitably distributed across the customer base,” a spokesperson told MyBroadband.

Then don't sell more bundles than your network can handle.