Data rollover on all contracts?

[0rk0]

Wow, you are unbelievable. You know, on this forum there is a trend- when someone is losing an argument they shy away from the facts and start nitpicking. I refuse to lower myself to a level of nitpicking. If you are unsure about South Africa's economic system feel free to Google it.


My whole point is you don't need to incur extra costs. Look at Afrihost, for example. They offer a flat rate of R29/GB. If you can explain to me how, in this instance, you incur extra costs by not buying in bulk, please share it with me.

I look forward to your reply wrt my post before the one you quoted.

The problem is that you only see your situtation and not the bigger picture.
There are different methods of accessing the internet, not only ADSL.
People without coverage have to use alternative methods like 3G or wireless.
3G bandwidth is expensive and I'm sure they will welcome the rollover.
Same with Neotel users who don't have a bandwidth monitor.

If everybody started using their CAP to the max, like you do and having no rollover, the price will go up in anycase, since the ISP will have to cater for more activity on the line in a monthly period.

It was fun...cheers.
Ps- Don't take it too personally...

 

[Kaufies]

The problem is that you only see your situtation and not the bigger picture.
There are different methods of accessing the internet, not only ADSL.
People without coverage have to use alternative methods like 3G or wireless.
3G bandwidth is expensive and I'm sure they will welcome the rollover.
Same with Neotel users who don't have a bandwidth monitor.

The situation right now benefits more people than the proposed situation will. If this thing goes through data prices will increase across the board and no matter how slowly you use it, you will be paying more for less. Which brings me back to my initial point- why don't you take advantage of the current situation? Buy less data each month, use it all and save some money. It appears to be a win-win-win situation.

If everybody started using their CAP to the max, like you do and having no rollover, the price will go up in anycase, since the ISP will have to cater for more activity on the line in a monthly period.

Yes, but that won't happen. Users like my grandparents pay a fixed fee for "internet." They don't even know about capping etc. There will always be such users. ISPs know this and factor it into their cost projections etc. This allows us clued up users to have a better deal.

It was fun...cheers.

Cheers? Hanging up your MyBB boots?

Ps- Don't take it too personally...

Uhm... OK?

 

[ads]

PS. Oh yea, and my absolute favourite part is when the ISP/Telecom company actually have the audacity to comment on this in that it is not in the best interest of the consumer, just like when they were forced to lower the interconnect rate.

Actually, this is completely different to the interconnection rate issue. In that case, the economic principle of placing limits on wholesale rates, where the providers have significant market power and de facto monopolies, is sound, and falls directly within the mandate of a telecoms regulator (or a competition regulator). Reducing interconnection rates has the effect of levelling the playing field for smaller players and new entrants, and increasing competition, which ultimately benefits the consumer.

Interference by a regulator in retail pricing and pricing models has none of these effects (remember the pharmacy retail price fixing attempt by the late Minister of Health?), and falls outside of the mandate and reason for such a regulator to exist. Whilst telecoms regulators also look after the rights of consumers in various ways (contractual terms, support, unethical practice etc), there is no basis, globally, for them to dictate retail pricing, since this typically has the opposite effect - it destroys competition, particularly smaller players, and is ultimately very bad for the consumer.

This simply highlights that the people who draft regulations need to have a very clear idea how the market works, and the economics of pricing, so that they can distinguish between a Vodacom lobbying campaign to protect its monopoly interconnection income, and the sound arguments from ISPs, whose customers would be the losers with this kind of bad regulation.

 

[LilJohn]

OMW the free ride and reselling of "already paid for services and data" is near IF this is true and ICASSA have the b@lls to make it stick. Unfortunately TELKOM will spell it out to their real shareholders and bosses (government/Mp's and their law makers) that they will loose a significant portion of their return of "Investments" so this will be reviewed and chucked in the thrash can to be filed in a garbage dump.

Why only mention TELKOM, VODACOM and MTN is full of fat cats too!

 

[rpm]

Here I must agree with ads. To force all ISPs to offer only one product will mean that Afrihost can not offer a R14.50 per GB top-up bundle or offer a R29 per GB ADSL service. Companies will have to factor in all credit which they may be asked to pay later, causing havoc on their balance sheets and hence have to increase prices.

I think Vodacom and MTN are better positioned to offer non-expiring data as they have set the president with their voice minutes, but I also feel that ICASA should set not force certain product offerings on companies. They may do well to set a roof for bandwidth pricing, ensure LLU happens quickly and the like, but they should be careful in starting to define how broadband products should look.

 

[nexxus]

No rollovers, then they'll roll deficits over as well!

...
..
.

 

[ingeon]

The situation right now benefits more people than the proposed situation will. If this thing goes through data prices will increase across the board and no matter how slowly you use it, you will be paying more for less. Which brings me back to my initial point- why don't you take advantage of the current situation? Buy less data each month, use it all and save some money. It appears to be a win-win-win situation.


Yes, but that won't happen. Users like my grandparents pay a fixed fee for "internet." They don't even know about capping etc. There will always be such users. ISPs know this and factor it into their cost projections etc. This allows us clued up users to have a better deal.


Cheers? Hanging up your MyBB boots?


Uhm... OK?

It would be nice to see some actual stats showing how many megabytes don`t get used.

 

[killkom]

Guys you can do this already with Data

Cancel your 3Gig per month account which costs you say R300 per month now spend that R300 per month on a prepaid account whether you need to top it up or not and there you go you have data that never expires

This legislation just makes it a bit easier to do and makes you able to sign a contract that guarantees the supplier that you are buying that amount of bandwidth every month and allows them to give you a further discount

I think its wrong that we loose what we pay for if we don't use it the supplier as specially the resellers buy a bundle of bandwidth which they resell I wonder id they loose what they don't use

 

[Drake2007]

Here I must agree with ads. To force all ISPs to offer only one product will mean that Afrihost can not offer a R14.50 per GB top-up bundle or offer a R29 per GB ADSL service. Companies will have to factor in all credit which they may be asked to pay later, causing havoc on their balance sheets and hence have to increase prices.

I think Vodacom and MTN are better positioned to offer non-expiring data as they have set the president with their voice minutes, but I also feel that ICASA should set not force certain product offerings on companies. They may do well to set a roof for bandwidth pricing, ensure LLU happens quickly and the like, but they should be careful in starting to define how broadband products should look.

I don't see how this will cause havoc on their balance sheets. You're either in the Red or the Black. And they would have money ( Data) reflected in users accounts as being positive if their Data (which they have paid for) has rolloever. There's no transference after the fact, just like you can't use one casino's chips in another casino.

The whole original excuse from telkom for CAPS in the first place is that users went free for all, counter productive, all it does is subsidise heavy users with the scraps that "normal" users paid for but didn't pig out on.

 

[bekdik]

I don`t know about your cars but my petrol stays in my tank till i have driven all of it out :wtf:

Indeed, but you have paid up front. That which evaporates doesn't get replaced for free.

@Killkom - good point.

Infinite carryover will simply mean that a monthly subscription will no longer be offered. All products will be prepaid together with a shortish rollover period.

 

[0rk0]

The situation right now benefits more people than the proposed situation will. If this thing goes through data prices will increase across the board and no matter how slowly you use it, you will be paying more for less. Which brings me back to my initial point- why don't you take advantage of the current situation? Buy less data each month, use it all and save some money. It appears to be a win-win-win situation.


Yes, but that won't happen. Users like my grandparents pay a fixed fee for "internet." They don't even know about capping etc. There will always be such users. ISPs know this and factor it into their cost projections etc. This allows us clued up users to have a better deal.


Cheers? Hanging up your MyBB boots?


Uhm... OK?

LOL, I just can't resist replying.

You my friend are totally confused and are contradicting yourself on so many levels, it's not even funny.

1. Only certain users like yourself who is "clued up" gets the better deal.
2. It only appears to be win-win. True, since most people get a raw deal, like your grandparents.
Would you like to get the raw deal?
3. If there aren't many people getting this raw deal, your bennefit can be that great.

The playing field will be equal with the rollover and that's what you don't like.

The solution, like I said, will be to provide uncapped. Then there's no admin/ liabilities involved. Bill for line speed.
Then users like my friend here can pay less and crawl to their pirated 56GBs or pay 'n bit more and enjoy the bliss that is true broadband without being ripped-off.

Everybody should be able to get the same deal.

 

[johandutoit2000]

The point is that just like charging too much for call termination amongst mobile operators is evil business practices, so too is expiry dates on bundles. The regulator is trying to force the providers to use honorable business practices. Yes, prices will go up in the short term, but soon it should drop again as competition increases and the operators have settled into their new business models. It is about principle and we would look back at these times when we got abused by service providers and think... geeees!

 

[Kaufies]

LOL, I just can't resist replying.

You my friend are totally confused and are contradicting yourself on so many levels, it's not even funny.

1. Only certain users like yourself who is "clued up" gets the better deal.
2. It only appears to be win-win. True, since most people get a raw deal, like your grandparents.
Would you like to get the raw deal?
3. If there aren't many people getting this raw deal, your bennefit can be that great.

The playing field will be equal with the rollover and that's what you don't like.

The solution, like I said, will be to provide uncapped. Then there's no admin/ liabilities involved. Bill for line speed.
Then users like my friend here can pay less and crawl to their pirated 56GBs or pay 'n bit more and enjoy the bliss that is true broadband without being ripped-off.

Everybody should be able to get the same deal.

Look, at the end of the day I'm a capitalist. In the free market system consumers like me are rewarded for persistence and market savvy. As you know I am getting a great deal currently. I pay an all-inclusive (phone, adsl and data) fee of around R650 for over 50GBs of data each month. This is because I did the research and put the effort in.

I get highly irritated when people such as yourself come along with dodgy, communist views. Countries tried your system and it failed. Everyone does not deserve "to get the same deal." It simply does not work.

Anyway, if you can satisfactorily answer the following question I will get on board and support this initiative. Assuming prices will increase should this regulation be effected, why should I be punished so lazy, self-entitled users such as yourself get a better deal? The opportunity for you to find a scenario where you pay less (for what you need each month) exists. Right now you are being punished for your laziness. Why/How is it fair that I'm punished for my diligence?

 

[0rk0]

Look, at the end of the day I'm a capitalist. In the free market system consumers like me are rewarded for persistence and market savvy. As you know I am getting a great deal currently. I pay an all-inclusive (phone, adsl and data) fee of around R650 for over 50GBs of data each month. This is because I did the research and put the effort in.

I get highly irritated when people such as yourself come along with dodgy, communist views. Countries tried your system and it failed. Everyone does not deserve "to get the same deal." It simply does not work.

Anyway, if you can satisfactorily answer the following question I will get on board and support this initiative. Assuming prices will increase should this regulation be effected, why should I be punished so lazy, self-entitled users such as yourself get a better deal? The opportunity for you to find a scenario where you pay less (for what you need each month) exists. Right now you are being punished for your laziness. Why/How is it fair that I'm punished for my diligence?

LOL

The only diligence you're displaying is wasting your parents varsity money by spending your time on news servers, downloading other peoples intellectual property. (based on your profile information)

People should be punished for exploiting other people who are not capable of improving their situation.
It has nothing to do with lazyness.

I don't want less bandwidth.
You propose that people should take less bandwidth, so that you can abuse the situation.

There is nothing "communist" about wanting a fair solution.
As for unregulated capitalism, look what happened in the USA with their unregulated banks...

Based on my proposal people will still have the choice to choose a faster line speed, without the limitation placed on accessing the information via CAP.
If it means that we have to pay a little bit more to get a fair system, then so be it. Why should we support people who abuse the system.
This method will also ensure that the focus of ISP's are on faster lines instead of making their problem ours by limiting our ability to browse.

 

[bluegoo]

@Kaufies - you bring communism into the argument, but you want those of us who don't use all our bandwidth to subsidize yours. I think that pot is calling the kettle black.

 

[milomak]

what's the standard treatment of capped accounts internationally?

 

[Kaufies]

Ok, this has gone waaaaaay to far. Tbh, I don't really care. Anyway, I'll try once more to save you some money each month. This is the last time as I'm getting tired of repeating the same things over and over and over and over (can't imagine anyone even reading my posts anymore).

The only diligence you're displaying is wasting your parents varsity money by spending your time on news servers, downloading other peoples intellectual property. (based on your profile information)

I'm going to take a wild guess and say your name is Sherlock Holmes, yes? Btw, nice try at changing the subject, pity I don't feel like getting into piracy.

People should be punished for exploiting other people who are not capable of improving their situation.
It has nothing to do with lazyness.

How are these people incapable of improving their situation? What's stopping them from signing up at MyBB and asking for advice or Googling "cheap adsl South Africa"?

I don't want less bandwidth.
You propose that people should take less bandwidth, so that you can abuse the situation.

That is not at all what I said. I said if you have a lot of bandwidth that expires at the end of the month (iirc, you said you didn't want to download rubbish just to finish your cap) you should look into buying less to save you money, not to subsidize me- I was trying to help you!

There is nothing "communist" about wanting a fair solution.
As for unregulated capitalism, look what happened in the USA with their unregulated banks...

But that's not what you said. You said everyone should get the same deal. A good deal is already available for them. They have to go out and find it. I agree pure capitalism can never work. There always has to be some or other form of regulation. But it's important not to have too much regulation.

Based on my proposal people will still have the choice to choose a faster line speed, without the limitation placed on accessing the information via CAP.
If it means that we have to pay a little bit more to get a fair system, then so be it. Why should we support people who abuse the system.
This method will also ensure that the focus of ISP's are on faster lines instead of making their problem ours by limiting our ability to browse.

No offense or anything but I don't care about your proposal. It's not very well thought out.

Lastly, there's this misconception that I'm saying you must buy lots of data and not use it so I get a better deal (yes, I'm talking to you, bluegoo). I never said that. In fact, this whole time I've been trying to show you that you don't need Icasa helping you out. Rather do it yourself and save. If Icasa has to do it for you, you will be paying more! Is that really what you want?

 

[0rk0]

Ok, this has gone waaaaaay to far. Tbh, I don't really care. Anyway, I'll try once more to save you some money each month. This is the last time as I'm getting tired of repeating the same things over and over and over and over (can't imagine anyone even reading my posts anymore).


I'm going to take a wild guess and say your name is Sherlock Holmes, yes? Btw, nice try at changing the subject, pity I don't feel like getting into piracy.


How are these people incapable of improving their situation? What's stopping them from signing up at MyBB and asking for advice or Googling "cheap adsl South Africa"?


That is not at all what I said. I said if you have a lot of bandwidth that expires at the end of the month (iirc, you said you didn't want to download rubbish just to finish your cap) you should look into buying less to save you money, not to subsidize me- I was trying to help you!


But that's not what you said. You said everyone should get the same deal. A good deal is already available for them. They have to go out and find it. I agree pure capitalism can never work. There always has to be some or other form of regulation. But it's important not to have too much regulation.


No offense or anything but I don't care about your proposal. It's not very well thought out.

Lastly, there's this misconception that I'm saying you must buy lots of data and not use it so I get a better deal (yes, I'm talking to you, bluegoo). I never said that. In fact, this whole time I've been trying to show you that you don't need Icasa helping you out. Rather do it yourself and save. If Icasa has to do it for you, you will be paying more! Is that really what you want?

I'm going to make this short, so it's easy to understand:

People should always have access to information. This should not be limited by CAP's.
The speed at which you get this information is the luxury and should be billed for.
It's simply a change of focus.
Just because you can't grasp the concept doesn't make it "not very well thought out".

If people don't have coverage in their area, then they don't have a lot of options they can choose from. Nothing to do with lazyness or lack of research.
Rollover is a good thing, since it will help to get rid of this CAP system.
That's my opinion, live with it.

Cheers

 

[Kaufies]

I'm going to make this short, so it's easy to understand:

People should always have access to information. This should not be limited by CAP's.
The speed at which you get this information is the luxury and should be billed for.
It's simply a change of focus.
Just because you can't grasp the concept doesn't make it "not very well thought out".

If people don't have coverage in their area, then they don't have a lot of options they can choose from. Nothing to do with lazyness or lack of research.
Rollover is a good thing, since it will help to get rid of this CAP system.
That's my opinion, live with it.

Cheers

Don't know why that post had a sad face as it's mascot. I thought we were having a robust debate. I would do anything to get rid of caps across the board. I believe LLU is the only thing that has a chance of doing that (it will lower prices of capped products at the very least).

I've always lived in an area with ADSL coverage so I've probably been a bit naive wrt to people who aren't as fortunate as myself. Apologies for that.

I'm a staunch supporter of LLU which is why I get annoyed when Icasa (who I believe should be championing the LLU cause) decide to focus their time in other areas. Yes, this is a bit selfish of me. But I believe it will bring a change to the market as a whole.

Lol, it's quite odd to see we've basically been on the same side this whole time!!

 

[0rk0]

Don't know why that post had a sad face as it's mascot. I thought we were having a robust debate. I would do anything to get rid of caps across the board. I believe LLU is the only thing that has a chance of doing that (it will lower prices of capped products at the very least).

I've always lived in an area with ADSL coverage so I've probably been a bit naive wrt to people who aren't as fortunate as myself. Apologies for that.

I'm a staunch supporter of LLU which is why I get annoyed when Icasa (who I believe should be championing the LLU cause) decide to focus their time in other areas. Yes, this is a bit selfish of me. But I believe it will bring a change to the market as a whole.

Lol, it's quite odd to see we've basically been on the same side this whole time!!

It's all good.
The mascot wasn't meant to be there, LOL
Take it easy and have a good evening.