Data rollover on all contracts?

I imagine that current contracts and bundles are built on the assumption that a certain amount of the bundled minutes,data etc. will go unused and expire. This can be reliably built into the costing of the bundle. If bundled services never expire, this margin disappears and the cost of the bundle will have to be raised for everybody.

Think about all the mom & pop households using 1GB internet packages. I bet most of them never get capped. That few hundred MB that they don't use is subsidising your 3GB or 5GB account.

Also something to consider. If at the end of my 24 month contract, a mobile operator has to pay me out, how exactly do they calculate what to pay me? Is it just their cost for the call, or does it include interconnect, peak or off peak, in bundle rate or out of bundle? etc. It's an accounting nightmare.

While i see ICASA's aim with this legislation, it is a massive can of worms and needs some serious rethinking.
 
supersunbird said:
Dude, if I pay R149 for a 3GB telkom bundle and i don't use it for 3 months, telkom still gets R149 a month and won't go bankrupt.
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Obviously Telkom won't go bankrupt. They cross-subsidise broadband from much bigger business services anyway. It's guys like Afrihost that will go bankrupt, since they are operating much closer to the edge already (they're probably losing money on every customer at R29 per month, for example). That was my previous point.

Also, you have fallen headlong into the trap - the bundle doesn't have any inherent value, either in revenue or cost terms. The network has inherent value, and it ultimately determines the cost, and hence the price; the cap is just a billing mechanism.

Think about it: You're not paying for 3GB every month. What you are paying for is the average usage of all the 3GB users on the network - no idea what it is, but, for argument's sake, let's say it's 2GB. Hence, if all users, supported by this regulation, demand "their" 3GB, forever, then the average being provided per month will rise from 2GB to 3GB (even if it's just in cash at the end of the contract). Hence, expect the price to rise by 1.5 times if the provider maintains its current margins. It's simple accounting. (Again, I'm really not commenting on whether their margins are high or low, good or bad, just how one works them out. Try running an ISP.)

Gaz{M} said:
Think about all the mom & pop households using 1GB internet packages. I bet most of them never get capped. That few hundred MB that they don't use is subsidising your 3GB or 5GB account.
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Exactly.

(Actually, the real network cost structure is quite a lot more complicated. The cost of international bandwidth, for example, is based on the peak bandwidth usage of all users on the network at some point in the month - the size of the caps just influences this indirectly, but the accounting approach taken above is fairly typical. We can save that discussion for some other time.)
 
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rpm said:
I may add that I have been told that the chance that this code of conduct will be finalised in their current form is highly unlikely. I think we can expect massive resistance to this document from numerous service providers.
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And in true ICASA form they will probably fold to the corporations. :P

Personally, this wont help me even a little bit. I never have cap left at the end of the month. lol
 
Kaufies said:
Kind of a lame argument. The money I paid for the fish I bought 3 months ago didn't have an expiry date either:erm:
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Kind of a cr@p argument... Are you blaming the fish or the fishmonger?
 
Kind of ironic that people insist on data rollovers yet complain of those that buy bandwidth as a pipe monthly vs data.
 
You're not paying for 3GB every month

All I know is, I paid for that 3gig and that is what I should get. The service provider agreed to that.
 
Antonf said:
Kind of a cr@p argument... Are you blaming the fish or the fishmonger?
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I don't see a difference. I bought fish with a best before date. I didn't use it before then so now is it OK for me to ask for a refund?

The same applies to data. You buy data that expires after a period of time...
 
supersunbird said:
Dude, if I pay R149 for a 3GB telkom bundle and i don't use it for 3 months, telkom still gets R149 a month and won't go bankrupt. In the 4th month I can use then download some stuff for 9GB and if that breaks the network then they have a poor network, because not everyone is going to try the same thing at the same time, it's gonna be spread ofer diffirent months.

Actually the suppliers loose money since I don't want to spend money on a system where it will just expire becuase I don't use it often, so vodacom has no steady icome from me, because I will only use the service once every few month and thus thye rest of the time I ain't buying prepaid bandwidth.

You know its not like providers buy a 20 000GB cap and then deals it out for the rest of use in pieces for a higher price, so its not like they willl be loosing money when we use the data a few times a year instead of use it up every month.

The only thing i can agree on is that one shouldn't get monetary reinbursment for unused data if cancelling the contract, just use it up and cancel.

Please apply some logic next time and think further...
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The providers will lose money because they wont be able to oversell their services on assumption that people don't use their full caps, as now people will use their full caps somewhere down the line.
 
“carefully consider the difference between a service for a set amount of data and a service which imposes a maximum usage cap”
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Come on... An ISP is a service provider... They provide a set amount of data which is my 1GB or 2GB or whatever... Bloody lawyers with there loopholes... Someone ones said "His only problem is, he is a lawyer..."
 
A variety of issues are handled in this draft code of conduct, including contractual issues, the freedom to purchase subscriber equipment, tariffs and offenses & penalties. If a company is found to be in non-compliance with the code of conduct it can impose a maximum fine of R250,000.
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This better be per offense otherwise Vodacom,MTN, etc. will be more than willing to pay a tiny fine every now and then.

My issue is that these documents need to be worded (by a lawyer who knows his/her stuff) in such a way that there are no hidden escape clauses or grey areas.
 
Kaufies said:
I don't see a difference. I bought fish with a best before date. I didn't use it before then so now is it OK for me to ask for a refund?

The same applies to data. You buy data that expires after a period of time...
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@Kaufies

Your argument is flawed.
You can still choose to eat the fish.
Ours is taken away.

The data doesn't lose value (same with the money), the fish does. ;)
 
0rk0 said:
@Kaufies

Your argument is flawed.
You can still choose to eat the fish.
Ours is taken away.

The data doesn't lose value (same with the money), the fish does. ;)
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Arrrrrgh (not pirate sound- sign of frustration). This whole metaphor kicked off when it was mentioned money doesn't have an expiry date but data does. So I extrapolated by saying fish (bought with money that doesn't expire either) has an expiration date (whether you can eat it or not is irrelevant- it expires). Granted, this metaphor has gone to hell. Should never have been extended this far.

Anyway, this is my concern: when buying data month-to-month from Axxess, 1GB costs R59 but prepaid (which lasts longer than a month) costs R69. It stands to reason the price of month-to-month will increase if this is regulation is effected. I'm looking out for myself here. I don't want to pay more each month because some people don't use all their data. I simply ran with the fish metaphor to explain my point of view. Apologies if it were too abstract for comprehension.
 
Pilgrim said:
Expect a new type of product to hit the market: "Uncapped with a fair usage policy"
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This is most likely what will happen. Seems to be what international telco's are trying to enforce.
 
This Telecoms operators got their inspiration from the movie Office Space.

In the movie they write some program that just slices of the cream of the top the 0.00001cents from every transaction and makes an insane amount in no time...

The Telecoms operators loved it and thought to them selves "How can we do this"
"Aha, we sell them SMS bundles, Data bundles and airtime pre&post paid but we stipulate only 30days. Ingenious, the majority won`t use everything and the remainder expires into out bank accounts and nobody will see it as a crime":whistle:
 
ads said:
Whatever consumers may imagine bundles and caps to be, ICASA has yet again come up with a very blunt instrument that may put all current broadband services at risk, and could lead to price increases, rather than benefiting consumers. Fortunately, it's unlikely to make it all the way through the regulatory process in its current form...

...I'm not commenting here on whether the actual prices charged in South Africa are good or bad, just the logic of having different prices for different caps and bundles that do not have an unlimited lifespan...

...I'm sure ICASA thinks it's being a consumer champion with this approach, but what it's really doing is limiting the options for charging mechanisms for service providers, and hence limiting the opportunity for real competition in the market. The logical conclusion of this kind of approach is that ICASA should simply set the pricing structure and prices of all services, rapidly reducing competition (and the number of service providers) to zero (OK, maybe one service provider, but government-owned, with matching service levels).
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+1
Every should one re-read what ads has written. It is well thought out and should be submitted as public comment to ICASA on their proposal. I think one could not enforce such regulations.

But I'd take out a high usage, low rate, internet/cellphone subcription, and end up with free usage long after the contract has expired. (probably get a nice modem/cellphone thrown in too.
 
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