I read an interesting artical the othr day that states that the SAT-3 Cable system was constructed during the days when Telkom was a national company, and not privatised, therefore funded by the public! There fore Telkom should not have any right to the sub cable system at all... and is in fact a public service system
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DataPro lets remove them and their advertising.
- Thread starter ganymede1
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Are you guys forgetting something? The per gig billing wont magically now make shaped adsl performing any better than it is atm. If this per gig billing brought you unshaped access at a good price per gig, and alot of bells and whistles, then you could argue it being better.
You know the biggest problem we have in our society is greed and lack of humanity. Selfishness being the key factor to both - we are all about ourselves (including telkom). Juice is just another prick who thinks in the above way. It nice to see there are a lot of people here who dont just give a **** about themselves who can see why schools need uncapped solutions why small start up businesses can fuel the economy and let those effects filter down to the really poor. When did we loose all aspects of our humanity and actually stop careing about each other and just think about ourselves. Juice just because you dont need to download anything doesnt mean the rest of Za doesnt. In my humble opinion its disgusting that you think your gaming should take preference over the needs of everyone and your willing to ratify this situation by ignoring all the other things peop(le use the internet for.
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ettubrute
Expert Member
Have to agree 100% with you on this one. Just look at ALL big companies' bottom line these days: all making billions for their shareholders, making the super-rich richer, and ripping off the poor, so they become poorer.ganymede1 said:
Then, another issue: I stated the following:
Paarlberg replied with:ettubrute said:
I don't mind paying for the piece of copper coming to my house. BUT, I do that already, namely R92/month. Why do you feel it justified to have me pay an extra R477 for the same piece of copper, which is now only being used closer to it's capacity?paarlberg said:
Franna said:
I am a bit curious as to why all of a sudden someone who uses their line to capacity is classified as an "abuser" just because talkom have been bandying this word around. Surely if i use my line, all the time as advertised, you can't call me an abuser? I already suffer due to contention ratio's and port prioritizing to a fairly large degree why can't i use my line to it's reduced full potential? Why this mythical 100gigs? My brother in the UK also has a cap. He was whining about it the other day. But his is 500gigs......a realistic value for someone on a 8meg line.
doobiwan
Executive Member
My 30c (Telkom equivalent of 2c)
Am I for pay per Gig? Yes, just affordable, like R10/Gb, and with a sliding scale.
I'm not prepared to subsidize some scum who wants to download illegal warez, moviez and MP3z 24/7, soaking up bandwidth.
Consider we "only" have ~120Gbps international bandwidth, compared to the Northern hemisphere, which runs in Tera and Peta bytes. While that's still a fair amount, someone listening to radio or streaming legit movies from overseas is going to "block" about a meg on the line. While you should be entitled to do that, you should pay for it.
As far as school and such go, I believe they should have access to good internet, but the same applies. It's one thing for a school to be able to access online libraries/Wike's etc. But they shouldn't be able to abuse it with warez etc.
Am I for pay per Gig? Yes, just affordable, like R10/Gb, and with a sliding scale.
I'm not prepared to subsidize some scum who wants to download illegal warez, moviez and MP3z 24/7, soaking up bandwidth.
Consider we "only" have ~120Gbps international bandwidth, compared to the Northern hemisphere, which runs in Tera and Peta bytes. While that's still a fair amount, someone listening to radio or streaming legit movies from overseas is going to "block" about a meg on the line. While you should be entitled to do that, you should pay for it.
As far as school and such go, I believe they should have access to good internet, but the same applies. It's one thing for a school to be able to access online libraries/Wike's etc. But they shouldn't be able to abuse it with warez etc.
I dont think you fully understand the backbones structure. the 120gbps connection is from south africa to Europe, additionally you 2 more cables going to the U.S, and the SAFe cable going to Asia, then you have around 40 satteliets linking us to to around the world. We do work in petrabytes, its just Telkom is not utilising our entire network. ( And when i say our, i mean our, the sat 3 cable system belongs to the people of south africa and not Telkom, as it was built with taxpayers money from when telkom was still a government owned compnay.)
ettubrute
Expert Member
IMO it still is!sburrell said:
They "privatised" Telkom to fill their (gov/ANC) own chests faster!ettubrute said:IMO it still is!
Yes true, but in a legal standpoint, the governmen has no direct control over it, it is just a stakeholder....
RoosTa
Expert Member
What you all seem to forget is that this structure is a wholesale structure for ISPs. IOW ISP's will still be providing the public a package deal. This means that you will get still a 1,2,3,5,10,20 or 30 gig package or they can provide a "create-your-own". Thereafter you can pay more to get more, unlike today where you'll have to sign a whole new account. This can be a good thing since the international trend these days are to cap, but what I totally disagree with, is the price!
To those who are saying R220 for 3 gigs is fine (because they are paying less), are complete muppets. If Mauritius, which is using the SAFE cable, can provide 512/128Kb Uncapped ADSL for under R400, then you must be bonkers believe that R220 is "fine" for an ISP charge and a 3gig cap. Prices in South Africa ARE artificially inflated and now people are saying its fine if they drop it by measly R30, yet you are still getting less for more (complete loss of local). But its "fine"; "I'm saving a WHOPPING R30!"
Here people watch their bank accounts with eagle eyes. 10 cents saved is a huge saving, because prices are so artificially high that we can't afford anything in the first place. This is the mindset these greedmongers want you to be in! Now they can keep their price hikes while the consumer seems "contempt" at a measly "price drop" while providing less for more.
Think about it; Would you still buy a Golf Chico 1.4 for R100 000, but they took out the aircon and dropped the price by R300? Yet, An aircon costs R1500! This means they are getting more profit. You save R300, but you actually lose R1200.
To those who are saying R220 for 3 gigs is fine (because they are paying less), are complete muppets. If Mauritius, which is using the SAFE cable, can provide 512/128Kb Uncapped ADSL for under R400, then you must be bonkers believe that R220 is "fine" for an ISP charge and a 3gig cap. Prices in South Africa ARE artificially inflated and now people are saying its fine if they drop it by measly R30, yet you are still getting less for more (complete loss of local). But its "fine"; "I'm saving a WHOPPING R30!"
Here people watch their bank accounts with eagle eyes. 10 cents saved is a huge saving, because prices are so artificially high that we can't afford anything in the first place. This is the mindset these greedmongers want you to be in! Now they can keep their price hikes while the consumer seems "contempt" at a measly "price drop" while providing less for more.
Think about it; Would you still buy a Golf Chico 1.4 for R100 000, but they took out the aircon and dropped the price by R300? Yet, An aircon costs R1500! This means they are getting more profit. You save R300, but you actually lose R1200.
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RoosTa
Expert Member
paarlberg said:
International charge less than R400 for ADSL? Damn I got screwed again...
International don't cap or have very high caps at a low price? Damn I got screwed again...
ADSL used to have local uncapped? Damn, I got screwed again...
Beside who the hell in their right mind would pay for a 1970 Golf Chico 1.4 R100 000 with 0km on the clock? Damn I got screwed again...
So how many times do you need to get screwed before you do anything about it?
RoosTa
Expert Member
Now lets say EVERYONE has only 3Gig, how are you: "subsidize(ing) some scum who wants to download illegal warez, moviez and MP3z 24/7, soaking up bandwidth". I just don't understand your reasoning. I paid 3gig, you paid 3gig. I use 3 gig, you use 3 gig. I download 3 gigs of pr0n and you download linux distros. How are you "subsidize(ing)" me? Whats lighter? 1kg of feathers or 1kg of gold?
(R200 for 3gig? - see my above post)
But I have paid for it x3 over. Why can't I do what ADSL is meant for?
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doobiwan
Executive Member
We agree and disagree in a sort of cocked up way LaRoosta.
At the end of the day we all want cheap, fast Internet. (And Telkom to get a big kick in the nuts)
Your 3Gb comment is fair. I guess my contention is with the concept of "unlimited" international bandwidth, not caps per say. I don't want someone going "okay everyone has to pay R500/m but you get unlimited bandwidth" because I get no value from that, I don't use more than 10Gb a month. So great, let me pay for 10Gb, but a reasonable amount like R100 or something. If heavy users want to download 8TB of pr0n, that's their indaba, but they must pay for the 8TB, not me.
The illegal bit is also what gets me. I'm all for human rights, freedom of communication etc. but if eDonkey, KaZaa or whatever is clogging the lines and degrading service then it deserves to be somewhat shaped (note, not cut off). The issue with Shaping currently is that it's everything bar http/ftp. If the illegal traffic doesn't affect me, then I don't even care that much.
At the end of the day we all want cheap, fast Internet. (And Telkom to get a big kick in the nuts)
Your 3Gb comment is fair. I guess my contention is with the concept of "unlimited" international bandwidth, not caps per say. I don't want someone going "okay everyone has to pay R500/m but you get unlimited bandwidth" because I get no value from that, I don't use more than 10Gb a month. So great, let me pay for 10Gb, but a reasonable amount like R100 or something. If heavy users want to download 8TB of pr0n, that's their indaba, but they must pay for the 8TB, not me.
The illegal bit is also what gets me. I'm all for human rights, freedom of communication etc. but if eDonkey, KaZaa or whatever is clogging the lines and degrading service then it deserves to be somewhat shaped (note, not cut off). The issue with Shaping currently is that it's everything bar http/ftp. If the illegal traffic doesn't affect me, then I don't even care that much.
I dont feel your comments can be taken to heart doobiewan, yes you should get what you pay for, but if telkom is supplying us with 512k/b broadband, then we should be able to download at that speed at all times! And i mean all times, DSL was created to supply multi media services, not specifically web browsing but everything. And if we arnt able to do those sorts of things then whats the point?
Shame on you!
Yes, and lets do another poll:
When you get hijacked in future in south africa which would you prefer:
a) at gunpoint
b) at knifepoint
Compared to what we had before it is an improvement. The point is that its still a rip-off. Telkom is still imposing arbitrary caps and shaping while charging exhorbitant prices. Telkom is stil using deceptive advertising and lies at every opportunity. Telkom is still restricting and limiting the growth of internet based and general businesses in this country. Telkom still insists that only one person per household may use the internet.
Its an improvement of one step while we need quantum leap! Large caps and unshaped accounts work everywhere in the world so why not here? The specifics might be different but the general aspects are the same!
Juice said:
Yes, and lets do another poll:
When you get hijacked in future in south africa which would you prefer:
a) at gunpoint
b) at knifepoint
Compared to what we had before it is an improvement. The point is that its still a rip-off. Telkom is still imposing arbitrary caps and shaping while charging exhorbitant prices. Telkom is stil using deceptive advertising and lies at every opportunity. Telkom is still restricting and limiting the growth of internet based and general businesses in this country. Telkom still insists that only one person per household may use the internet.
Its an improvement of one step while we need quantum leap! Large caps and unshaped accounts work everywhere in the world so why not here? The specifics might be different but the general aspects are the same!
doobiwan
Executive Member
Because it's not feasible, nor cost effective. If every ADSL user was guaranteed their bandwidth on the international links 24/7, you're asking for a contention ratio of 1:1.
Considering ADSL users expect decent speed and latency, and assuming everyone has a 512k connection (and I want at least 4Mbps
) it means Telkoms (33% of 120gb) bit of the SAT3 cable could only support about 77343.75 ADSL users and no other traffic. We're already at over 100000 ADSL users at the moment, so it's not even physically possible.
Thus we have contention, and the only way slice up the bandwidth is by usage, to allow all users fair use of hte contended bandwidth.
Considering ADSL users expect decent speed and latency, and assuming everyone has a 512k connection (and I want at least 4Mbps
) it means Telkoms (33% of 120gb) bit of the SAT3 cable could only support about 77343.75 ADSL users and no other traffic. We're already at over 100000 ADSL users at the moment, so it's not even physically possible. Thus we have contention, and the only way slice up the bandwidth is by usage, to allow all users fair use of hte contended bandwidth.
sburrell said:
Can you imagine what would happen if everyone used full bandwidth as you said "And i mean all times"? The internet would no longer function if 10-20% of the people in the world did that. Most peering would become useless and to support that, the prices you currently pay would be cheap compared to what you would be charged for unlimited use at full bandwidth for everyone in the world that is connected.
Moederloos
Honorary Master
doobiwan said:Because it's not feasible, nor cost effective. If every ADSL user was guaranteed their bandwidth on the international links 24/7, you're asking for a contention ratio of 1:1.
Considering ADSL users expect decent speed and latency, and assuming everyone has a 512k connection (and I want at least 4Mbps
Thus we have contention, and the only way slice up the bandwidth is by usage, to allow all users fair use of hte contended bandwidth.
Yes, that may be correct (except there is way more than 120GB available - AND companies like IS will buy/rent their own satellites if allowed, but that is also not an option with Telkom around). However, as Telkom is so fond of saying, 90% or so of users do not even use 3GB. So, what is the problem. Only shape when necessary, not before.