Depression.

Nick333 said:
I've got to say I'm with killa on this one. Self-pity is a self-perpetuating frame of mind. And, seeking sympathy is damaging to self-esteem.
I think "coming out" as a depressive is important for self-acceptance and dealing with feelings of shame. But, what possible point is there in wallowing in your identity as a depressive? Its sympathy seeking; its attention seeking. Its an avoidance of responsibility.

Believe me, I know depression can be physiological but that doesn't mean ones attitude has no baring on the experience.
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It's comments like these that perpetuate stigma against depression. We are not talking about an emo personality which is what you are describing.
 
Nick333 said:
I've got to say I'm with killa on this one. Self-pity is a self-perpetuating frame of mind. And, seeking sympathy is damaging to self-esteem.
I think "coming out" as a depressive is important for self-acceptance and dealing with feelings of shame. But, what possible point is there in wallowing in your identity as a depressive? Its sympathy seeking; its attention seeking. Its an avoidance of responsibility.

Believe me, I know depression can be physiological but that doesn't mean ones attitude has no baring on the experience.
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Thank you.

Gentlemen, I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this matter. There is no consensus from the experts on what causes depression, if its a disease or if it isn't, if the drugs do any good or harm. Therefore I have not been convinced by this thread and any reading materials in it that this is a bona fide disease and that the cure in anti-depressant medication.

I think a change of attitude, kicking of certain habits and a positive outlook can help a vast majority of depressed people and I think those here who do suffer from depression should not discourage this and brush it off the way some of you have. Medication should be the last possible resort, because it has not been conclusively proven to work.
 
Singal said:
It's comments like these that perpetuate stigma against depression. We are not talking about an emo personality which is what you are describing.
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Its politically correct attempts at censorship of open debate that contributes to stigmas. I've suffered from depression since I was a teenager. I'm probably bipolar and a functioning alcoholic. I've got every right to express my opinion on the subject. I cope pretty well without medication and I find examining my inner narrative has astounding results. Even just an awareness of my negative beliefs and what causes them can make a huge difference to my mood. Doesn't always work in those rare times when I my thoughts feel out of control I can just ride it out without surrendering to the depths of despair.
 
Velenoso said:
Thank you.

Gentlemen, I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this matter. There is no consensus from the experts on what causes depression, if its a disease or if it isn't, if the drugs do any good or harm. Therefore I have not been convinced by this thread and any reading materials in it that this is a bona fide disease and that the cure in anti-depressant medication.

I think a change of attitude, kicking of certain habits and a positive outlook can help a vast majority of depressed people and I think those here who do suffer from depression should not discourage this and brush it off the way some of you have. Medication should be the last possible resort, because it has not been conclusively proven to work.
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I do believe it is a genetic propensity like alcoholism. Everyone in my immediate family is on Prozac except myself.
To be honest I think I would respond very well to the right meds and I might give in and go on meds one day but I prefer to address it on my own terms.
I think depressives have a harder time attaining contentment and joy but its still something that the majority of people need to attain. Some of us need to work harder but at the end of the end of the day almost everyone has to work for what they want.
 
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/480836-Dealing-with-depression/page5?highlight=dealing+with+depression
I'll just leave this here with singal's comment...read it, don't read it *shrug*
Singal said:
I think it would be obvious to anyone reading the OP's post that he is suffering from a stress related situation and not depression, and yet it seems like only the people who claim to understand depression picked up on that. Could it be that they know what they are talking about ?
And yes, I suffer from depression.
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We all must find something that works for us, but I would always stay far away from any medication.

Reminds me too much of the poor Pretoria kids who get pumped full of Ritalin, and they're basically drugged at school. And how parents struggle afterwards to get their kids off the crap.

I have found that a combination of healthy exercise, religion and a healthy lifestyle (eating the right stuff) are giving me far better results than I first thought would be possible.

When things were going really bad in my life, I was hovering on the edge of going into the depression zone, but I knew that would have been the end of me. I just refused to become negative and kept going, hoping for a better tomorrow, keeping the faith and not giving up.

It will work, but you must be disciplined. I guess the easy way out is medication, as you want it to be done for you & everyone must know that you are busy battling this "disease" with this powerful medication.

You must find what works best for you & give it 150%.
 
A possible biological explanation for certain types of depression may be systemic inflammation.

http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=217001:

Background The biological mechanisms by which depression might increase risk of cardiovascular disease are not clear. Inflammation may be a key element in the development of atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease. Our objective was to determine the association between major depression and elevated C-reactive protein (CRP) level in a nationally representative cohort.

Methods We estimated the odds of elevated CRP level (>0.21 mg/mL) associated with depression in 6914 noninstitutionalized men and women (age, 18-39 years) from the Third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES III).

Conclusion Major depression is strongly associated with increased levels of CRP among men and could help explain the increased risk of cardiovascular disease associated with depression in men.
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http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1485898:

Context The pathogenesis of depression is not fully understood, but studies suggest that low-grade systemic inflammation contributes to the development of depression.

Objective To test whether elevated plasma levels of C-reactive protein (CRP) are associated with psychological distress and depression.

Participants We examined 73 131 men and women aged 20 to 100 years.

Conclusions Elevated levels of CRP are associated with increased risk for psychological distress and depression in the general population.
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Here is a website that gives an "inflammation factor" of various common foods:

http://nutritiondata.self.com/help/inflammation

For example, pineapple has an inflammation factor of 65 making it mildly anti-inflammatory:

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/2019/2

Salmon oil has an inflammation factor of 30284 making it strongly anti-inflammatory:

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fats-and-oils/632/2

This may be the reason why many depression sufferers report that fish oil improves their depression.
 
kingrob said:
Reminds me too much of the poor Pretoria kids who get pumped full of Ritalin, and they're basically drugged at school. And how parents struggle afterwards to get their kids off the crap.
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Great restraint is needed in prescribing psychoactive medicines on a chronic basis to children whose brains are still developing.
 
copacetic said:
I don't need to go for a re-evaluation. It's either up the dose (which I am not willing to do), try a different drug or try something else.

I guess I am just trying something else first.

And yes, this is partially a financial issue. I should probably be in therapy of some sort, but can't afford it. :D
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Sorry to hear that. At least you are in control of these changes you're trying to make and I'm rooting for you that something will work for you.

BTW, mybb therapy is FREE OF CHARGE you lucky son of a bitch :p :D
 
kingrob said:
We all must find something that works for us, but I would always stay far away from any medication.

Reminds me too much of the poor Pretoria kids who get pumped full of Ritalin, and they're basically drugged at school. And how parents struggle afterwards to get their kids off the crap.

I have found that a combination of healthy exercise, religion and a healthy lifestyle (eating the right stuff) are giving me far better results than I first thought would be possible.

When things were going really bad in my life, I was hovering on the edge of going into the depression zone, but I knew that would have been the end of me. I just refused to become negative and kept going, hoping for a better tomorrow, keeping the faith and not giving up.

It will work, but you must be disciplined. I guess the easy way out is medication, as you want it to be done for you & everyone must know that you are busy battling this "disease" with this powerful medication.

You must find what works best for you & give it 150%.
Click to expand...
I think you would benefit from reading the link I posted above. IMO your problem is also ,as copa says there 'situation related' and no pill is going to cure that.
 
Singal said:
:wtf: learn to read and understand, bud. No one is disputing that positivity works for some people. It's when you make comments that people who take antidepressants are taking the easy route that people get angry. You are one confused doob, bud.
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See ignorance again,

what is the first step after you are told you have depression? You know the answer and you know it is the easy way. So the easy way is first step, that is a fact and you are somehow disputing it which shows me you are one of those negative stubborn people who cannot see the obvious or refuse to see it, it's impossible to believe you could be wrong like it's impossible to believe there is nothing wrong with you other than your mind.

I am so glad i stopped thinking other treatments were impossible and my brain was damaged because wow listening to some of you guys brings back scary dark and horrific memories.

Copa you do not need therapy FFS, i linked you to a youtube channel, there are thousands. Those people will guide without it costing you a cent, watching them and listening to them while practising some of the exercises will change your mind but it is a lengthy process. When you watch positive people everyday on youtube you will begin your journey but you have to be willing to try something different and believe it can work, you cannot try it thinking there is no way it will work or once again it won't because you have said it won't.
 
Humberto said:
A possible biological explanation for certain types of depression may be systemic inflammation.

http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=217001:



http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1485898:



Here is a website that gives an "inflammation factor" of various common foods:

http://nutritiondata.self.com/help/inflammation

For example, pineapple has an inflammation factor of 65 making it mildly anti-inflammatory:

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/2019/2

Salmon oil has an inflammation factor of 30284 making it strongly anti-inflammatory:

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fats-and-oils/632/2

This may be the reason why many depression sufferers report that fish oil improves their depression.
Click to expand...

This is very interesting.

The Marshall Protocol database ( www.mpkb.org ) concurs that it is indeed inflammation causing depression, and other chronic illnesses. It also describes what causes that inflammation, it has a very detailed pathogenesis. It disagrees on how to best deal with this inflammation.

There are microbes in the body that deactivate certain receptors which deactivates your innate immune system, so the microbes proliferate. You still have an immune response, but it is fighting a losing battle. That 'battle', where your vitamine d receptors release anti-microbial peptides to destroy the microbes, and the die-off of the microbes which cause endotoxins and cytokines, are what causes the inflammation. This could be in the brain or elsewhere in the body (in which case one may have the 'diagnosis' of fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, etc). It is also a very good explanation for what causes constant headaches (especially when other possible causes have been excluded). There are a great many new independent medical journals papers supporting this pathogenesis.

Anti inflammatories won't do the job - these microbes are systemic, and you can't rid of them that way. The best is to activate the body's own innate immune response, because anti-microbial peptides are the best at targeting and destroying these microbes.

Ons should also avoid vitamine D. Vitamine D is a secosteriod (a type of hormone) and not a much needed nutritional vitamine, unlike what we are 'spoonfed' all our lives, and keep on ingesting vitamine d enriched food. I am on my phone now, but if someone would like me to post medical journal articles to this effect later, I can.

Ons should also avoid ingested vitamine D. Salmon oil is extremely high in vitamine D, one of the highest of all foods. Humberto, this is where the Marshall Protocol disagrees.

One may ask: why do you feel better symptomatically after ingesting/getting vitamine D? It is because you are shutting down your innate immune response, and there is no more 'battle' against the systemic microbes in the body (read: brain - ie your depression might lift for a while), ergo no more endotoxins and cytokines, ergo less inflammation, ergo less depression/pain. BUT the microbes are now left to proliferate more quickly, so in the long run you are disadvantaged.

Low vitamine D is associated with depression and chronic illnesses - that does not mean it is the cause. Correlation is not causation. Supplementing with vit D will make things worse, ultimately. As explained in above paragraph. Doctors can test your vit D levels (the '25-D' blood test) but they don't test the 1,25-D blood levels, which will be high in a patient with chronic inflammatory diseases (which very much includes systemic depression). Unfortunately in RSA, it is only the NHI who test the 1,25-D, and they almost always botch it up. :(

I am not a doctor, just a patient who is learning my condition. And my wife's. The Marshall Protocol treatment is very tough in the beginning, but you will be cured and returned to a normal life.

I am only posting this for people's benefit who don't get adequate help from 'status quo' medicine. (The Marshall Protocol, even though more than 10 years going, is slowly being accepted world wide as the best explanation and body of knowledge for chronic inflammation)
 
killadoob said:
See ignorance again,

what is the first step after you are told you have depression? You know the answer and you know it is the easy way. So the easy way is first step, that is a fact and you are somehow disputing it which shows me you are one of those negative stubborn people who cannot see the obvious or refuse to see it, it's impossible to believe you could be wrong like it's impossible to believe there is nothing wrong with you other than your mind.

I am so glad i stopped thinking other treatments were impossible and my brain was damaged because wow listening to some of you guys brings back scary dark and horrific memories.

Copa you do not need therapy FFS, i linked you to a youtube channel, there are thousands. Those people will guide without it costing you a cent, watching them and listening to them while practising some of the exercises will change your mind but it is a lengthy process. When you watch positive people everyday on youtube you will begin your journey but you have to be willing to try something different and believe it can work, you cannot try it thinking there is no way it will work or once again it won't because you have said it won't.
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bwhahahaha, so youtube videos and religion are going to cure depression. You spout such horse**** doobie
 
killadoob said:
Yup it is recognized so the drug companies can push out big sales.

They have done such a good job of convincing people that depression is a disease drugs are now the norm.

Sadly for many people on drugs they will never truly be cured unless they fix their underlying issues. You can tell me it is an imbalance within the brain but there is no possible way anti depressants are magically repairing it.

Anyways the first thing a depressed person should do is go to a life coach who won't just hand out drugs, they will try fix the brain(well not the brain but how it looks at life) without chemicals that cause suicidal thoughts.
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LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

you think drug companies give a damn about the sale of ONE of their products? (especially old ones). Coviden, for example, deals with drugs, dyes and surgery (as most pharmaceutical companies do they dont just make tablets they make tons of stuff). They have offices in 140 odd countries worldwide and the japanese branch raked in a net profit of 1.8 billion USD on its own in the last financial year.

Really you think these companies care about a few sales ? out patients has no money o ignorant one. Its the in patients and theatre that has the bucks. These companies are too rich to bother about screwing over the single patient they dont have the time to convince anyone of anything.

They are so rich do you know they give millions of rands of stock FOR FREE to the government ?

and they host parties for medical practioners nationwide for christmas ect? these are effective adverts.

This year they sent 600 000 reps to turkey for a conference in a 5 star hotel all costs paid for. Your theories/conspiracies are just being stupid
 
Velenoso said:
Gentlemen, I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this matter. There is no consensus from the experts on what causes depression, if its a disease or if it isn't, if the drugs do any good or harm.
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Lies, half-truths and misrepresentations. Does this tack give an accurate reflection as to how you managed to rise above your supposed humble beginnings, I wonder?

If you, I and the Internet existed a hundred years ago you'd be arguing that diabetes isn't a disease. Depression's pathogenesis is poorly understood, yes; I don't think anyone is arguing the contrary. However to assert that there is no consensus among researchers and clinicians on depression's status as an illness is simply untrue.

Velenoso said:
Therefore I have not been convinced by this thread and any reading materials in it that this is a bona fide disease and that the cure in anti-depressant medication.
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And I am, likewise, not convinced that you bothered to glance at - let alone read - much of what was supplied to you.

Velenoso said:
I think a change of attitude, kicking of certain habits and a positive outlook can help a vast majority of depressed people and I think those here who do suffer from depression should not discourage this and brush it off the way some of you have. Medication should be the last possible resort, because it has not been conclusively proven to work.
Click to expand...
Again, another misrepresentation. I don't see anyone arguing against the possible positive effects of what you suggest, but it is disingenuous to purport that there does not exist a portion of sufferers that no degree of 'attitude-readjustment' will help. Further, to say medication has not been proven to work is patently false. Antidepressants have been shown to outperform placebos in numerous studies and meta-analyses. The less-than-ideal hit-rate is to be expected where a condition (or, perhaps, numerous contributory conditions) and its mechanics are not well understood - this is why research is conducted, and why treatment improves over time.
 
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