Depression.

Here are some of my lay thoughts and opinions about antidepressant medication. By "antidepressant medication" I mean serotonin reuptake inhibitors.

Why doctors prescribe antidepressants "like candy". Do you wait until the person becomes dysfunctional at work and loses their job before you prescribe antidepressants? Do you wait for the person to self-medicate with alcohol or other substances before you give them antidepressants? Do you wait for them to attempt suicide before deciding they've "earned" their antidepressants? Back in the days of MAOIs and tricyclic antidepressants, patients had to "earn" their antidepressants because of the side-effect profiles of these medicines. But modern antidepressants have rather mild side-effect profiles. Hence doctors play it safe and prescribe antidepressants earlier, before the depression has taken its toll, rather than later.

Depression tends to get worse over time. Untreated depression causes the hippocampus to shrink. There are neuroplastic changes that occur with long-term untreated depression that make it harder to treat the depression. Hence why doctors like to nip it in the bud and treat it earlier rather than later.

What are the side-effects of antidepressants? The average person can expect diminished libido, sexual dysfunction, and diminished capacity for pleasure (anhedonia). These are both symptoms of depression and side-effects of antidepressant use.

Are antidepressants addictive? True antidepressants (SSRIs etc., not tranquilisers) are not addictive in the sense that there isn't drug-seeking behaviour, people don't get high off antidepressants, antidepressants don't have a street value, etc. However, antidepressants are physically dependence forming in the sense that abrupt withdrawl may lead to physical withdrawl symptoms (notably a very unpleasant feeling of electric shocks in the scalp). In the case of SSRIs these withdrawl symptoms are euphemistically referred to as a "discontinuation syndrome" rather than "withdrawl" so as to avoid a perception of these medicines as being addictive.

Should you use antidepressants, or rather "sit it out"? If antidepressants work for you, does it really matter? Why "wrestle" with the depression when a simple solution is available?

Are people who resort to using anti-depressants "weak"? Are people who take decongestants to treat a runny nose weak? No, they are people who decide to use what medicine has to offer in order to better their lot. This is not a sign of weakness, but rather, a sign of common sense.

Do antidepressants really work? They do really work, but only just. In clinical trials the margin between antidepressants and placebo is generally small (sometimes embarrassingly small). Also, antidepressants do not comprehensively treat depression, but merely relieve some of its symptoms. Most people who use them seem to feel that they do better on them than off them, so in that sense they work, but it's hit-and-miss. Many people will try several anti-depressants before they find one that "works".

Does it matter that they fare only slightly better than placebo? No. The n=1 trial - yourself - is what matters, not a statistic about how they work for the general population.

My old doctor put me on Prozac which seemed to work pretty well but now my new doctor says Cymbalta is so much better and I should rather use Cymbalta. What do you think? If it's not broken, don't fix it, and newer isn't always better.

My doctor put me on Zoloft and then added Wellbutrin to address some of the apathy issues caused by the Zoloft. I think I may better benefit from an Efexor/Wellbutrin combo though. What do you think? Beware the psychopharmacology treadmill. The perfect cocktail does not exist.

Is depression caused by a "chemical imbalance"? If it were really as simple as "depression is caused by having too little serotonin" then we would have a 100 % effective treatment for depression in the form of SSRIs - something which we do not currently have. All that can be said is that disruption of the transmission of various neurotransmitters has an antidepressant effect. That does not mean a depressed person has too little serotonin.

There is an antidepressant medicine in France, called tianeptine, which is a serotonin reuptake accelerator - it does the opposite of what SSRIs do. Explain that.

What is the role of therapy? Studies have shown that patients who combine medication with therapy have a better outcome than patients who use either modality alone. Therapy may seem like an expensive waste of time in the short run. The benefits are best assessed only after a few sessions. Does a single dose of antibiotics cure an infection?

Depressed patients often have a situational stressor (bad work environment, unfulfilling love life, difficult family relationships, financial problems, etc.) that contributes or even causes their depression. Therapy may equip you with coping skills to better handle these problems.
 
Ironically its only the people who have financial, relationship,alcohol or drug issues that have these so called "chemical imbalances".

Hey doc I don't have money and I'm depressed so what do yoy think.
No its not the money problem, its the chemicals in your brain so take these pills for R100/pop and call me when you need something stronger.

Don't be duped by these con artists people.
I cannot even begin to tell you how wrong you are. Unfortunately trying to explain depression to someone who doesn't get it is like banging your head against a brick wall. Hopefully someone who needs help will never be unfortunate enough to approach you and your ilk for advice
 
I cannot even begin to tell you how wrong you are. Unfortunately trying to explain depression to someone who doesn't get it is like banging your head against a brick wall. Hopefully someone who needs help will never be unfortunate enough to approach you and your ilk for advice
http://chriskresser.com/the-chemical-imbalance-myth
 
You're saying depression leads to financial, health, drug problems etc.
I'm saying it's the other way round.You're going to struggle to find healthy, well rounded, successful individuals who want to kill themselves because because of some underlying chemical problem in the brain.

Maybe because they're already on anti depressants :erm:

I know of non smoking, independent, wealthy people with depression and many others do too.

Perhaps you have heard of Gary Speed
 
I have also been dianosed with clinical depreession.

I live a healthy lifestyle I go to the gym at least 3 times a week and run a minimum of 40kms a week.

And yet I still suffer from depression. I was prescribed ant-depression meds and it had made a huge possitive influence in my life.

If you suffer from depression no amount of exercise will completely help you deal with depression.

I can't believe that there are so many ignorant people.
 
I have also been dianosed with clinical depreession.

I live a healthy lifestyle I go to the gym at least 3 times a week and run a minimum of 40kms a week.

And yet I still suffer from depression. I was prescribed ant-depression meds and it had made a huge possitive influence in my life.

If you suffer from depression no amount of exercise will completely help you deal with depression.

I can't believe that there are so many ignorant people.

Good to hear but has the meds actually cured you or are you subjected to taking these things for the rest of your life.

Ironically I know some people who actually felt worse when they tried to stop taking the drugs, because it basically controls you.
 
Good to hear but has the meds actually cured you or are you subjected to taking these things for the rest of your life.

If you were an epileptic, would you rather take ant-epilepsy medication, or have seizures your whole life?

Ironically I know some people who actually felt worse when they tried to stop taking the drugs, because it basically controls you.

They can be tough to come of off, absolutely.

As for 'controls you', what do you mean?
 
If you were an epileptic, would you rather take ant-epilepsy medication, or have seizures your whole life?



They can be tough to come of off, absolutely.

As for 'controls you', what do you mean?

Epilepsy is a real disease. Depression is not a real disease. Did you see the post earlier on how little difference there is between the real drugs and a placebo? In other words I could give you aspirin, tell you they are anti-depressants and you would feel the same.

Depression is something you need to sort out. Something in your life is making you unhappy and you need to change it.
 
Epilepsy is a real disease. Depression is not a real disease. Did you see the post earlier on how little difference there is between the real drugs and a placebo? In other words I could give you aspirin, tell you they are anti-depressants and you would feel the same.

Those are pretty bold claims you are making.

As far as I can recall, the 'no better than placebo' story relates to mild depression, while there is a marked increase in efficacy when used to treat severe clinical depression.

Look, there's no point in arguing about this - If you feel aspirin would fix people like myself up, what can I say to make you think otherwise?

Depression is something you need to sort out. Something in your life is making you unhappy and you need to change it.

Said like someone who has no clue what they are talking about.
 
If you were an epileptic, would you rather take ant-epilepsy medication, or have seizures your whole life?



They can be tough to come of off, absolutely.








































As for 'controls you', what do you mean?


So what you're effectively saying is that, like Epilepsy, clinical depression is a lifelong mental illness with no permanent cure?
So those serious patients that manage to come off the hard meds weren't diagnosed properly or they were cured by taking AD?

As far as control is concerned, these drugs are designed specifically to keep you hooked on them for as long as possible.
Its the repeat business that maintains this billion dollar industry.
 
So what you're effectively saying is that, like Epilepsy, clinical depression is a lifelong mental illness with no permanent cure?

If you need to medication to function, then yes indeed.

Does everyone need medication to function? No.

So those serious patients that manage to come off the hard meds weren't diagnosed properly or they were cured by taking AD?

Antidepressants do not 'cure' depression. They make it manageable.

As far as control is concerned, these drugs are designed specifically to keep you hooked on them for as long as possible.
Its the repeat business that maintains this billion dollar industry.

Proof, thanks.

It is indeed a big industry, and consumers need to be aware of what they are taking and why, as well as the potential risks and side effects.

But to discount the medication completely is just as stupid as taking it because you're having a ****ty day.
 
Hi all

Depression is serious. Medical science does not yet have all the answers. Copacetic is correct in that anti depressants help make symptoms more manageable...but it does not necessarily cure you.

Very NB -> my wife started a new treatment for her myalgic encephelamyelitis (aka 'CFS') and fibromyalgia. I am also going to start it soon, as I suffer from symptoms of 'CFS' and depression.

After the decoding of the human genome about 10 years ago, a flood of new information and research has since hit the medical community. It has challenged a lot of things the medici thought they knew to be true.

One if the greater findings (upon which this treatment is based) is that bacteria/microbes causes many of the chronic illnesses we know of, like 'CFS' and fibromyalgia. It even causes depression (not all depression).

I am not a doctor, so I can't explain it very well. In addition, symptoms of depression like 'brain fog' are not helping me to think clearly either. I know my statements are very bold, but look at the answers given in the url's provided below.

Look for yourself:

mpkb.org/home/diseases/cfsmpkb.org/home/diseases/cfs

http://mpkb.org/home/diseases/depressiondepression (this page is not yet completed, as the knowledge base is HUGE and they are ever updating it, if you browse a bit, you will see so)

You can also start from the beginning, and read on the pathogenesis: mpkb.org .

I encourage anyone who has been.struggling with depression and who hasn't received conclusive help, to take a look.

Anyone with a chronic inflammatory disease as well.

I did mention chronic fatigue, and fibromyalgia, along with depression, because they are all related. Anyone with a chronic inflammatory disease should at least know about this treatment.

This whole treatment is backed up by a great many medical journal and science journal articles, and it is just growing. The website cites every paper, and every article in the website (every web page) contains a long list of peer reviewed articles in support of the new findings.

Earlier in the thread, a question was asked as to why our parents, grandparents etc were so tough and how all the 'boys' of today need to 'man up'. The reason for this is that bacteria/ microbes have evolutionised to a point, where if certain conditions are met, they start deactivating parts of your body's innate immune response. If this is in your brain, you will experience depression and other mental symptoms (eg anxiety). The brain is not fully protected by the blood brain barrier (BBB), as previously thought.

These bacteria / microbes are intraphagocytic (not sure of spelling, I'm on my phone) and are different to other bacteria that are picked up in blood tests. These aren't picked up in run of the mill blood tests.

Once again, I can't explain this all very well, so don't take my word or explanation for it, look at mpkb.org . You might know someone who could benefit from it (and who hasn't received conclusive help from the status quo treatments for chronic inflammatory diseases).

I have now probably crossed some forum ethical boundary...sorry about my long post, I just feel very strongly about people who suffer from depression and chronic illnesses, who are often told by people and doctors that 'it's in your head' and be wrongly sent to the psychologist (who can help cope, but can't help cure).

But please share your thoughts, even if it is not congruent with mine :rolleyes:
 
i don't know much about depression, but I've never heard of anyone being cured of it -- coping with or managing it by means of certain drugs, but not cured
 
i don't know much about depression, but I've never heard of anyone being cured of it -- coping with or managing it by means of certain drugs, but not cured

True. Unless it is temporary depression caused by some exterior shock (eg death in the family).

This phenomenon of not being cured supports the pathogenesis of the marshall protocol (mpkb.org) .
 
Anyone who thinks a mental disorder is not a disease please come visit me and I shall give you a personal tour of the psych unit
 
I'm newish to this - just interested in this electroshock.

Are the electrodes inside you - like an the skin is pierced?
Are they on your skin?
What's the theory behind it 'working'?

I just Googled this video which seems like torture and the screams are horrendous to hear :/ .... same thing?

New shock therapy the electrodes are placed directly into the brain
 
True. Unless it is temporary depression caused by some exterior shock (eg death in the family).

This phenomenon of not being cured supports the pathogenesis of the marshall protocol (mpkb.org) .
You have to admit though that many people use the term "depressed" very loosely , "I'm so depressed today" etc, when in fact they're just feeling down. A person suffering from some kind of depression will most probably not say anything...

From what sufferers have told me about depression (some in my family and acquaintances), it's certainly not something I would ever want to have -- and so far I consider myself lucky but at the same time my heart goes out to those who have to live with this hell.
 
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