Divorce Issues

[*Medusa*]

Reality is that your mom and dad entered a partnership when they got married. So she is entitled her 50%.

You dad can always ask your mom to sign a forfeiture of assets agreement. His lawyer can draw this up for him.

 

[P924]

This is the only time a swiss bank account is actually useful...

That said, if he moves his assets now, and then get a divorce, its probably not going to work.

 

[Celine]

The GEPF is specifically excluded from the Pension Funds Act (PFA) - it has it's own act: the Government Employees Pension Law. However, the GEPF is in the process of starting to offer divorce benefits to non-member spouses in a manner similar to funds registered under the PFA (i.e. at date of divorce instead of the non-member spouse only receiving their share when the member retires \ withdraws from the fund - the "clean break" principle).

nonsense the GEPF is not exempt from any of the divorce laws. if the marriage dissolves the pension is to be paid to the spouse on divorce as per the law. how do i know that one? my friend has just received her half of her ex husbands pension fund from the GEPF.

 

[Celine]

You shouldn't just side with your dad so easily. You probably don't know the entire truth about their relationship. Its so easy for a man to say that he is the breadwinner, but don't under estimate the role a woman has in her family.

Who cooked your dinners every night? Cleaned the house? Who did you run to when you got hurt?

Did you dad pay your mom for any of the "chores" she did around the house?

WTH? pay for the woman to do the chores? since when is that a requirement? please show me where that is stated so i can claim my share.

 

[Electric]

WTH? pay for the woman to do the chores? since when is that a requirement? please show me where that is stated so i can claim my share.

Get back into the kitchen!!!!!

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Are you sure we're not siblings? It sounds like the exact sort of behaviour my mom has. When her fuse is lit it becomes pure hell.

your mom sounds like my mom and while you love them and they aren't bad people, they make life a complete misery for those around them and are ticking time bombs.

I do believe this is a trait of of all our moms.

 

[Rkootknir]

nonsense the GEPF is not exempt from any of the divorce laws. if the marriage dissolves the pension is to be paid to the spouse on divorce as per the law. how do i know that one? my friend has just received her half of her ex husbands pension fund from the GEPF.

Aah, sorry. I see the amendment was made on 01/04/2012 (http://www.gepf.gov.za/index.php/news/article/gepf-rule-changes).

However, this is quite some time after the clean break change was made to the Pension Funds Act (13/09/2007), so the GEPF did not have rules similar to that required under the PFA for about 5 years.

 

[IzZzy]

Aah, sorry. I see the amendment was made on 01/04/2012 (http://www.gepf.gov.za/index.php/news/article/gepf-rule-changes).

However, this is quite some time after the clean break change was made to the Pension Funds Act (13/09/2007), so the GEPF did not have rules similar to that required under the PFA for about 5 years.

So my original post remains correct

 

[Lycanthrope]

WTH? pay for the woman to do the chores? since when is that a requirement? please show me where that is stated so i can claim my share.

Calm down.

In any relationship, especially one where there is a primary breadwinner, it's expected (to one degree or another) that the other partner will take care of things at home (read: carry their own weight).

Medusa might have phrased it poorly, but that's a reality in many relationships where there is a primary breadwinner--not a "salary" per se but a sort of silent arrangement where the at-home partner is given "spending money" and they take care of the "homely" things.

This is often the case whether it's a woman staying at home or a man or whatever.

Chip on shoulder much?

 

[ian_stagib]

If you want to protect his money tell him to separate from her but not get a divorce. He can move out of the house and she'll have no hold on him. It's not like your dad should really care about the fact he's still technically married unless he wants to remarry.

 

[BandwidthAddict]

You shouldn't just side with your dad so easily. You probably don't know the entire truth about their relationship. Its so easy for a man to say that he is the breadwinner, but don't under estimate the role a woman has in her family.

Who cooked your dinners every night? Cleaned the house? Who did you run to when you got hurt?

Did you dad pay your mom for any of the "chores" she did around the house?

In South Africa, there is a good chance that the maid did it while the madam of the house sat and watched Loving or one of the other soaps.

 

[mak2000]

It does not matter who contributed how much. They married in COP so it means all should be shared equally. The debate is pointless in the eyes of the law. Only option is to negotiate but the earlier a decision is made and separation made the better. If the situation is hopeless then all the counselling etc will do is prolong the agony and the subsequent pain.

@OP, if the reason that your dad would not want a divorce is that he would lose half his assets and pension then it already is the wrong reason to stay together or try to manage the marriage.

 

[Epilepticus]

So now I am not all clued up on divorces etc. which is why I am here, so can anyone give me some sort of advice that I could pass on to my dad, maybe lawyers he could go to, legal advice, just anything I guess? Or is it just pointless and he just has to accept that he will have to give half everything.

Thanks in advance.

She sounds like she is unstable.

Bipolar 2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder

and/or Borderline Personality disorder: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder

They could go to couples therapy and CBT - Cognitive behavioral therapy - which could be useful for mom.

This also sounds like a love addiction and love avoidant situation.
Addict: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_addiction / http://www.eharmony.com/dating-advice/relationships/signs-of-love-addiction/#.Ux48zj-Sy3M
Avoidant: http://outofthefog.net/Disorders/AVPD.html



There is a website with some decent relationship advice here: http://www.eharmony.com/dating-advice/relationship-advice/

Duty of care under common law - (Don't know if it applies here)

A duty of care is a duty to take reasonable care to avoid acts or omissions, which you can reasonably foresee would be likely to injure persons who are so closely and directly affected by your act or omission that you ought reasonably to have them in contemplation as being so affected when directing your mind to e act or omission in question. - By letting a mentally unstable person divorce you without fighting it on grounds of temporary insanity/instability of sorts?

I am just wondering, if your father has a duty* of care towards helping your mother for her best interest then he should* get get professional help.

Also how can she "sign" consent to divorce, have a meeting of the mind, a valid contract, if she is in a mental state of ups and downs. - Mental illness can be complex.

Maybe get a social worker who deals with this type of thing and get your mother to go on a "holiday" with therapy.

Why did she fall in love, marry, what changed... etc. - all the normal relationship stuff.

Then deal with the abnormal moods, feelings and reactions.

Mom is maybe just sick, like a person with cancer... alzheimers, or a diabetic and it's not her fault... and she can still turn into a loveable mom who can love... feel love and be loved.

Dad also needs to hit the gym maybe, get in touch with "dating" mom again... when last did they go for a movie, eat out or cuddle? - Be friends? Does he even still know her?

Also a divorce will give your mother maybe a few bucks, sure, but most Bipolar people are notoriously bad at managing money when not treated... your mother may face undue hardship and your father must prevent her own self destruction... caused by her illness...

So get her admitted and if the Dr finds that she is ok, dad is just a no good hubby... *possibly*

As the legal spouse of your mother he IS* responsible for her health. She has become mentally ill possibly and he must now take responsibility over her?

How about making it part of the divorce agreement that she must go for full on therapy with him.

I'm going to leave you with a story that really touched my heart. Seems like some good advice to me...

The Loving Request Of Divorce.... Unknown Author... I got home one night and, as my wife served dinner, I held her hand and said, "I want a divorce." She didn’t seem to be annoyed by my words. Instead, she softly asked me why. I avoided the question, and this made her angry. She threw down the chopsticks and shouted, "You are not a man!" We didn’t talk to each other that night. She was weeping. I knew she wanted to find out what had happened to our marriage, but I could hardly give her a satisfactory answer; she had lost my heart to Jane. I didn’t love her anymore. I just pitied her!

With a deep sense of guilt, I drafted a divorce agreement stating that she could keep the house, the car, and a 30% share of my company. She glanced at it and tore it to pieces. The woman who had spent ten years of her life with me had become a stranger. I felt sorry for her wasted time, resources and energy, but I could not take back what I had said. She finally cried loudly in front of me, which was what I had expected to see in the first place, and the idea of divorce felt more real now.

I got home very late from work the next day, and found her writing something at the table. I didn’t have dinner, I just went straight to bed and fell asleep.

In the morning she presented her divorce conditions: she didn’t want anything from me, but requested that for the next month we both struggle to live as normal a life as possible. Her reasons were simple: our son had his exams in a month, and she didn’t want to disrupt him with a broken marriage.

She also asked me to recall how I had carried her into out bridal room on our wedding day, and requested that I now carry her out of our bedroom to the front door every morning for the month’s duration. I thought she was going crazy, but to make our last days together bearable, I accepted her odd request.

We were both pretty clumsy about it when I carried her out on the first day, but our son was joyfully clapping his hands behind us, singing, "Daddy is holding mommy in his arms!" His words triggered a sense of pain in me. I carried her from the bedroom to the living room, and then to the door. She closed her eyes and softly said, "Don’t tell our son about the divorce." I nodded and put her down outside the door.

We weren't as clumsy on the second day. She leaned on my chest, and I could smell the fragrance of her blouse. I realized that I hadn’t really looked at this woman for a long time. She was not young anymore. There were fine wrinkles on her face, and her hair was graying! Our marriage had taken its toll on her. For a minute I wondered what I had done to her.

On the fourth day, when I lifted her up, I felt a sense of intimacy returning. This was the woman who had given ten years of her life to me. On the fifth and sixth day, I realized that our sense of intimacy was growing again. It became easier to carry her as the month slipped by, and I suddenly realized that she was getting very thin.

One morning it hit me how she was burying so much pain and bitterness in her heart, and without really thinking about it, I reached out and touched her head. Our son came in at that moment and said, "Dad, it’s time to carry mom out!" To him, seeing his father carry his mother out had become an essential part of every morning. My wife gestured to our son to come closer, and hugged him tightly. I turned my face away because I was afraid I might start changing my mind. I carried her in my arms, and her hand naturally wrapped around my neck. I held her body tightly, just like on our wedding day.

On the last day, when I held her in my arms, I could hardly move a step. I knew what I had to do. I drove to Jane's place, walked upstairs and said, "I'm sorry, Jane, but I do not want to divorce my wife anymore".

It all became very clear to me. I had carried my wife into our home on our wedding day, and I am to hold her "until death do us apart". I bought a bouquet of flowers for my wife on my way home, and when the salesgirl asked me what to write on the card, I smiled and said, "I’ll carry you out every morning until death do us apart".

I got home, flowers in my hands, and a big smile on my face. But my wife had died in her sleep while I was away. It turns out that she'd been fighting cancer for a few months now, but I was too busy with Jane to even notice. She knew that she would die soon, but wanted to save me from a negative reaction from our son (in case we push through with the divorce). In the eyes of our son, at least, I would still appear to have been a loving husband. I carried her out for the last time...

The small details of our lives, that I initially thought were boring and unimportant, are what really matters in a relationship; not the mansion, the car, personal property or the money in the bank. These things may create an environment conducive for happiness, but they cannot provide happiness in-and-of themselves.

So find time to be your lover’s friend, and to do those little things for each other that build intimacy.

Many people do not realize how close they are to success when they give up. Link: http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Love-Nice-Thought-Provoking-Stories/2182828

Your mom is a prisoner to her own mind, and it may end up killing her too. - She's a puppet on her illness' strings. Shame on you if you let her spiral out of control when she needs you guys most. - Stop being greedy, I know you ow her nothing, and I know you have also suffered.

But shes old, no pension... do you want your mom living on the streets? Get raped and mugged?

What is the point of family? What is the point of marriage... did dad marry her just to get into her pants? - In those days...

Do you have a C-class personality of yourself? Seems so, you sound heartless OP*

You're trying to be a judge and jury... not giving your mother a fair chance, or the correct support.

Love is something one fights for, family and friends. - We're all human and flawed and life is meaningless if we let the our selfish natures get in the way.

Go and fly back, hug your mom, tell her you miss her, etc. - But you might not even be able to reason with her as shes so ill and needs help "to think straight"

Shes ill... I'm sure she changed your nappies and was up all night taking care of you as a child, even though you did not ask to be born. You were also not asked to be loved, but she loved you any ways even in her distant way. "While being ill and untreated for years."

Go ask advice here, I dare you: https://www.facebook.com/MyBipolarDisorderedLife :twisted:

 

[SauRoNZA]

I'm prolly getting married next year and thinking of getting a prenup.

I just thought that I'd mention that if any other people that are about to get married come across this thread.

You shouldn't be thinking about it, you should just be doing it end of story.

 

[Ancalagon]

@Epilectus

Its a nice soppy story but unfortunately completely fake. You will know if somebody is dying of cancer - they cant hide it if they are that close. I would know, I watched my father die of cancer.

 

[Wasp_21]

Scenario: If they stay together, and his dad retires, she is still going to benefit 50% (or more) of his pension. Being worried about her taking his money now, sounds more like the dad is wanting to get out and have a jol. But that is my opinion. His Dad should pay her out, and move on. Let her then worry about the rest of her life, and the rest of his. A deal is a deal, no matter how you want to play it.