I highly doubt that but I'm open to you proving me wrong
I'll post some screenshots of me Tanking 25man Naxx in a months time.
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DK spec's & other
- Thread starter Pitbull
- Start date
I'll post some screenshots of me Tanking 25man Naxx in a months time.
Seems the prophecy that the first few weeks, maybe month of Wrath will see a deluge of DK's, mostly noobs, came true. But at the same time the second part of that theory has them pretty much qqing and/or quitting the class once they realise that (a)they aren't better or worse at any single role than any other class, they're merely an alternative, (b)they arent THAT op for pvp, and (c)there are only so many spots for them in raids, and they're pretty much doomed to be tanks in heroics.
They'll still probably remain one of the most popular classes in game though, based on 3 factors - aesthetic, availability to all races, and being strong at pvp. Actually that last point is the most important one. If DK's rip up the arenas, we can expect to see a lot of them hanging around for a long, long time.
They'll still probably remain one of the most popular classes in game though, based on 3 factors - aesthetic, availability to all races, and being strong at pvp. Actually that last point is the most important one. If DK's rip up the arenas, we can expect to see a lot of them hanging around for a long, long time.
mZbZ
Senior Member
I agree with Staalbal
I was in a group with 2 DKS and one was tank (I think he was frost spec)
We struggled to take down the last boss in UK
We wiped like 4 times until we finally got him down
I was in a group with 2 DKS and one was tank (I think he was frost spec)
We struggled to take down the last boss in UK
We wiped like 4 times until we finally got him down
Well how were you wiping?
Running from the dark smashes, getting as far as possible from the roars?
2 frost dk's (i used blood presence) a rogue, lock and pally healer cleared it np, not 1 wipe.
There is basically three ways in which a class can fail at tanking.
1. Threat
2. Gear (Defence/Avoidance/Mitigation)
3. Health
1. DK threat:
AoE --
Pull -> D&D -> IT -> PS -> Pestilence (can be used with blood boil for additional threat) -> (frost spec also has howling blast for additional threat). As any tank you tab through your targets and deal damage. Death Strike works great for this as you generate additional threat from the healing.
The above rotation is just a simple example. Obviously the encounter dictates your rotation.
Single Target --
Pull -> IT -> PS -> Runic Strike everytime it is up -> Deathstrike/Bloodstrike as they become available -> Oblitirate before diseases run out.
Again, keep in mind that your rotation will obviously change from encounter to encounter.
2. DK Gear (Avoidance/Defence/Mitigation)
Mitigation: Frost Presence that increases armor, scales with armor worn (and health but we get to that). Passive talent in frost tree (Tier 1). 3 Talents that directly affects incoming damage, of which all three is fairly easy to get once your realise that 51pt talents is not needed.
Avoidance: 3 EASY to afford talents. Extremely easy to take any of the T1 'tanking' talents in their respective trees. In addition DK receives parry bonus from strength. Your parry will scale with your strength, which in turn scales with certain raid buffs.
Defence: Like any tank a DK can reach Def Cap. Slightly harder due to the loss of a shield, but still easy with craftables, badges and instances/heroics gear. Do not forget enchants+gems.
3. Health: Obviously DK's will never approach the healthpool available to a bear. But then again, you dont need to. As a DK does not generate rage (warrior+druid) and mana(paladin) through incoming damage, it is preferable to have a disc priest for shield. Preventing damage > health. You wont hear a DK bitch over vent because the priest bubbles make them rage/mana starved.
The biggest weakness (as per the wow community at large) is the loss of a shield, and having to use a 2 hander. I turn that around and say its one of their biggest strengths. Using a 2 hander means I get hit capped so much easier than other tanks (exception is bear). I get 2 AP per strength point, meaning I can avoid AP and instead focus on Strength. Focusing on Str increases my parry, meaning I take less damage. Not having to stack block, means I can focus on other important stats (expertise, health etc.)
How does a DK generate threat? Pure damage. DK's also has their 'sunder' in the form of diseases. DK's has plenty of 'oh ****' damage reduction talents.
Lastly I want to mention something that really annoys me, and that is labels placed on people playing certain classes. I am referring to the people that calls other players retardins, huntard, faillock based on the class/spec that they play. Why is that if I may ask? Is it because it is an effective spec that does the job that it is supposed to? All that I think when I see such ignorant parroting of terms is that there is a sad person behind the screen, that needs to be part of the 'in crowd' by parroting words that he heard.
Anyway, off to sleep. Enjoy your views on the DK class, but keep in mind that your view might be the wrong view. Just as you might laugh at other people for their ignorant views, they might be laughing at your for your ignorant views. Just because you believe something to be true, doesnt mean that it is actually true.
1. Threat
2. Gear (Defence/Avoidance/Mitigation)
3. Health
1. DK threat:
AoE --
Pull -> D&D -> IT -> PS -> Pestilence (can be used with blood boil for additional threat) -> (frost spec also has howling blast for additional threat). As any tank you tab through your targets and deal damage. Death Strike works great for this as you generate additional threat from the healing.
The above rotation is just a simple example. Obviously the encounter dictates your rotation.
Single Target --
Pull -> IT -> PS -> Runic Strike everytime it is up -> Deathstrike/Bloodstrike as they become available -> Oblitirate before diseases run out.
Again, keep in mind that your rotation will obviously change from encounter to encounter.
2. DK Gear (Avoidance/Defence/Mitigation)
Mitigation: Frost Presence that increases armor, scales with armor worn (and health but we get to that). Passive talent in frost tree (Tier 1). 3 Talents that directly affects incoming damage, of which all three is fairly easy to get once your realise that 51pt talents is not needed.
Avoidance: 3 EASY to afford talents. Extremely easy to take any of the T1 'tanking' talents in their respective trees. In addition DK receives parry bonus from strength. Your parry will scale with your strength, which in turn scales with certain raid buffs.
Defence: Like any tank a DK can reach Def Cap. Slightly harder due to the loss of a shield, but still easy with craftables, badges and instances/heroics gear. Do not forget enchants+gems.
3. Health: Obviously DK's will never approach the healthpool available to a bear. But then again, you dont need to. As a DK does not generate rage (warrior+druid) and mana(paladin) through incoming damage, it is preferable to have a disc priest for shield. Preventing damage > health. You wont hear a DK bitch over vent because the priest bubbles make them rage/mana starved.
The biggest weakness (as per the wow community at large) is the loss of a shield, and having to use a 2 hander. I turn that around and say its one of their biggest strengths. Using a 2 hander means I get hit capped so much easier than other tanks (exception is bear). I get 2 AP per strength point, meaning I can avoid AP and instead focus on Strength. Focusing on Str increases my parry, meaning I take less damage. Not having to stack block, means I can focus on other important stats (expertise, health etc.)
How does a DK generate threat? Pure damage. DK's also has their 'sunder' in the form of diseases. DK's has plenty of 'oh ****' damage reduction talents.
Lastly I want to mention something that really annoys me, and that is labels placed on people playing certain classes. I am referring to the people that calls other players retardins, huntard, faillock based on the class/spec that they play. Why is that if I may ask? Is it because it is an effective spec that does the job that it is supposed to? All that I think when I see such ignorant parroting of terms is that there is a sad person behind the screen, that needs to be part of the 'in crowd' by parroting words that he heard.
Anyway, off to sleep. Enjoy your views on the DK class, but keep in mind that your view might be the wrong view. Just as you might laugh at other people for their ignorant views, they might be laughing at your for your ignorant views. Just because you believe something to be true, doesnt mean that it is actually true.
mZbZ
Senior Member
Pitbull
Verboten
I Did my first instance last night on my DK, Ramparts. I was aiming to be the DPS as we had a Tank. Was myself (Frost) another DK (Blood) a Warrior, Hunter and a Priest.
I had a very very hard time to stay clear of aggro. There was no build up to threat. One shot and BAM "Target is attacking you" We then decided that myseld and the other DK just grip and tank one each so we cleared the instance with no problem.
For the roll I want to play, I can see threat is going to be a massive problem. That or the fact that I don't know the abillities yet.... I don't know. Will have to be in a group a few more times to try and figure these things out
I had a very very hard time to stay clear of aggro. There was no build up to threat. One shot and BAM "Target is attacking you" We then decided that myseld and the other DK just grip and tank one each so we cleared the instance with no problem.
For the roll I want to play, I can see threat is going to be a massive problem. That or the fact that I don't know the abillities yet.... I don't know. Will have to be in a group a few more times to try and figure these things out
I come in peace and offer a different perspective,
Tanking has changed A LOT, not just in terms of which classes can tank but even how the mechanics work.
With the removal of crushing blows from the equation and flattening of Single/AOE abilities across the tanking classes it really is just a matter of skill now.
When comparing the 4 tanking classes it cannot be said that there is any "real" advantage in taking one over another. Yes there are slight differences in gearing and concepts but with skill none of these make a difference.
At the moment Druids are doing very well in heroics/entry raids simply because of the 6% less chance to be crit (avoiding the shift to defense gemming/enchants which paladins/warriors have had). Warriors and Paladins have sacrificed HP/expertise/STR to reach the new defense cap which does not mean they are tanking poorly just means they have swapped out good gear for poorly itemized quest rewards etc to meet the new cap.
DK's seem to be doing poorly but you need to look at the entire picture, most are still learning how to play their class. DK Tanking offers a new dynamic where it almost feels like you dps to tank which will take time. DK's are heavilly under geared compared to other tanks and this will cause a major problem at first.
Comparing my Paladin (80 Prot) to my DK (80 Frost) I can notice slight differences in incoming damage and TPS scaling. What I cannot tell you yet is how much of that is related to the paladin being a mix Sunwell/WoTLK gear vs the DK being a mix of Quest Rewards/Heroic Gear.
In some cases I have found the DK to be a superior tank, simple things like a distance closer (DG) make life pretty easy. In some cases the paladin is far better if only thanks to the new panic buttons that Ghostcrawler decided to add for us.
I guess what I am trying to say is that in 6 months time when everyone has similar gear and equal understanding of their classes the only thing separating the 4 tanks will be individual player skill.
Tanking has changed A LOT, not just in terms of which classes can tank but even how the mechanics work.
With the removal of crushing blows from the equation and flattening of Single/AOE abilities across the tanking classes it really is just a matter of skill now.
When comparing the 4 tanking classes it cannot be said that there is any "real" advantage in taking one over another. Yes there are slight differences in gearing and concepts but with skill none of these make a difference.
At the moment Druids are doing very well in heroics/entry raids simply because of the 6% less chance to be crit (avoiding the shift to defense gemming/enchants which paladins/warriors have had). Warriors and Paladins have sacrificed HP/expertise/STR to reach the new defense cap which does not mean they are tanking poorly just means they have swapped out good gear for poorly itemized quest rewards etc to meet the new cap.
DK's seem to be doing poorly but you need to look at the entire picture, most are still learning how to play their class. DK Tanking offers a new dynamic where it almost feels like you dps to tank which will take time. DK's are heavilly under geared compared to other tanks and this will cause a major problem at first.
Comparing my Paladin (80 Prot) to my DK (80 Frost) I can notice slight differences in incoming damage and TPS scaling. What I cannot tell you yet is how much of that is related to the paladin being a mix Sunwell/WoTLK gear vs the DK being a mix of Quest Rewards/Heroic Gear.
In some cases I have found the DK to be a superior tank, simple things like a distance closer (DG) make life pretty easy. In some cases the paladin is far better if only thanks to the new panic buttons that Ghostcrawler decided to add for us.
I guess what I am trying to say is that in 6 months time when everyone has similar gear and equal understanding of their classes the only thing separating the 4 tanks will be individual player skill.
I Did my first instance last night on my DK, Ramparts. I was aiming to be the DPS as we had a Tank. Was myself (Frost) another DK (Blood) a Warrior, Hunter and a Priest.
I had a very very hard time to stay clear of aggro. There was no build up to threat. One shot and BAM "Target is attacking you" We then decided that myseld and the other DK just grip and tank one each so we cleared the instance with no problem.
For the roll I want to play, I can see threat is going to be a massive problem. That or the fact that I don't know the abillities yet.... I don't know. Will have to be in a group a few more times to try and figure these things out
You didnt just zerg everything in sight?
