Doctors are killing it

[maumau]

Theres a string of parasitic costs attached to a string of parasitic services/products etc(With digital its so easy and fast=A dangerous abstract game) that end up killing to golden duck in this game of life=The average individual. The "value" attached to these costs through the whole ecconomic system is so huge that the effect is exponential spiralling upwards out of control due to the nature of it(It feeds on itself as a result), thats it has the potential to destroy any monetary system over time. It will kill the host eventually, and to recover from that in one to three generations will be hardly possible, due to educated lack of foresight & common sense, this outcome cannot be seen, or forseen, so unfortunately this cycle must go its course and destroy, which leaves the good people of the world found in each country vanurable to ever have a good life ever again in their lifetimes and taken over by sofisticated criminality, a crime against humanity if you ever going to see one.

@mushroom, is that you?

 

[RedViking]

@mushroom, is that you?

Please don't insult mushroom.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

Lol at you okes complaining about a few hundred ronds. My specialist charges R1500 per consultation. I go in with a list of things for her to check and explain to get the most minutes out of it. If you leave in 10 minutes you still get charged the same so make them work for it...

 

[Progenix Oj101]

Even that is insane. Architect or Draughtsman must charge R80 an hour or less. The software alone cost a R70-100K a year for a single license.

I don't know many architects. One, to be exact. He's doing well enough that he's cut back on the work he accepts as he can live a very comfortable life without working 24/7.

I have no idea what he earns, but it appears to be enough. I also don't know how much/if any of it is debt, but there's a limit to how much debt you can sustain on a given amount of money, and his lifestyle has been improving over the years rather than deteriorating.

At R 80/hour and bumping his hours up to full work days (9 hours/day, 22 days/month) that comes to just under R 16k before tax, and he's absolutely taking more than that while not working 45 hour weeks.

 

[Verrayne]

Everyone raised valid points in terms of why gp's and vets can charge R600+ for 15 minutes of consultation, whether they can help you or not, they have high costs to cover. Insurance, Liability, Secretaries, Assistants etc. It makes perfectly sense.

Why do we have the mindset though that other professional, such as Architects, Technologists, Draughtsman must be paid below the professional rates. How are they supposed to cover their fees or survive in the long term.

It is actually a rhetorical question. The building industry in SA is dead or at least in a very bad place, has been for many years. Yes, even though worldwide there is an economic depression currently, what South Africa has been experiencing for the last 10 years plus is very concerning. Building industry has some serious other challenges they face such as having to pay a middleman to be able to do work for the government or other big companies having to comply with the racial laws and quatas and connections and tender bosses. Architectural firms have to underpay their professionals and has to charge below SACAP rates in order to land jobs, even though technically it is illegal, they have no choice. Government and big contracts aside. The private individual has the mindset to only pay 0.5-1% of the building cost for a professional or experienced person to design, develop and prepare their project. This is the case in KZN anyways. Maybe things are better in JHB and CPT.

View attachment 1600876

But lets take the user above as an example. Willing to pay R140 psqm. In KZN that is 1% of the building cost. The reality is that it is actually a lot more expensive to build. Lets say the designer lives in the fantasy world of the client and takes a month on the project (this is not really realistic, but whatever). Consulting, Concept. Prelim. Design Development. Municipal Approval Drawings. Specifications. Local Municipal process. Changes. Petrol. Phone Calls. Consultations. Changes. Communication with Engineers, Surveyors, Clients wife has an opinion, Changes..... etc. etc. etc..... Lets say it is a 140 sqm house. That is less than R20 000 for the month. Software alone for the year is 70-100K for the year ,depending on what all is needed. For a single person. Then there is rental, transport, expenses......

Besides my 30% maths. Something just doesn't add up.


We pay a doctor that per day.

I used a draughtsman to do my drawings.

And truthfully at R25 000 I feel ripped off. (this was 10 years ago)

I did the initial design of the house. I did all the glass calculations, I took the drawings to the engineers and got their calculations. I did the lighting layout, I submitted the plans to the municipality. He started on Monday with my floorplan and gave me the finalised plans on Wednesday. During the build I had to make changes and got a proper architect in to redraw everything. cost another R40k.

 

[RedViking]

I used a draughtsman to do my drawings.

And truthfully at R25 000 I feel ripped off. (this was 10 years ago)

I did the initial design of the house. I did all the glass calculations, I took the drawings to the engineers and got their calculations. I did the lighting layout, I submitted the plans to the municipality. He started on Monday with my floorplan and gave me the finalised plans on Wednesday. During the build I had to make changes and got a proper architect in to redraw everything. cost another R40k.

That is a different situation seeing that you did most of the work and had to get a proper Architect. That is like going to a sangoma and paying R1500 for 15 minutes and feeling ripped of.

But at least you got "someone that does not charge an arm and a leg"

 

[Harmonic]

You're in the wrong area. Try the garden route.

Builders booked up 18 months in advance, just about every open plot sold and being built on, and older houses getting renovated. Just in my short 400m street there are 5 projects on the go. If I walk the dog, I pass maybe 20 projects. 18-22k per square is the going rate.

I've got some architect friends, and never see them these days. They work day and night, coining it while the going is good.

Can confirm. Out of the 50 civil engineers I've tried, only one was available recently to consult on an issue with my house and he happily charged me R6.5k to come out

 

[semaphore]

I'm on my 4th sore throat in 2 months and antibiotics again. Some of these bugs are die-hard of note.... i hope its finally going to die now lol.

That's your problem, you shovel medication like its candy. You've made your body dependent on drugs and you're too much of a soy boy to fight stuff off naturally. I'm all for medication, but seeing your posts over the last two years you suffer from a serious case of hypochondria and most likely Munchausen's.

 

[RedViking]

Can confirm. Out of the 50 civil engineers I've tried, only one was available recently to consult on an issue with my house and he happily charged me R6.5k to come out

Cool!

 

[RedViking]

That's your problem, you shovel medication like its candy. You've made your body dependent on drugs and you're too much of a soy boy to fight stuff off naturally. I'm all for medication, but seeing your posts over the last two years you suffer from a serious case of hypochondria and most likely Munchausen's.

Can you give relationship advice as well?

 

[semaphore]

Can you give relationship advice as well?

Go look up his posts, every week he's taking antibiotics for something or he's getting the latest vaccine. I am not even joking. He takes antibiotics for the sniffles.

 

[RudderVator]

R600 for 15 minutes. Fully booked the whole day. R15-R20 000 a day?

Doctor us currently on a yacht trip in the Bahamas though. Will be back in 2 weeks.

Let's don't mention lawyers charging R2000+ an hour. Even the time they spent on the loo.

Estate Agents..... Let's don't even talk about those snakes....

And yet people don't even want to pay R10 000 for municipal approval drawings for a R4 000 000 house.

Something seriously wrong with this place.

Or Vets…. R650 for the same consultation.

Only for x3 different ones at private practices telling you that your dog has a normal sounding heart.

Take it to Onderstepoort where a student picks up a murmur. This was backed up with sonars etc later on.

 

[NR7]

Hmph, I'm annoyed this morning as Mrs. Kosmik has been sick for the last month and back now third time to the doc. He's referred her for x-rays of her lungs ( note network GP and network hospital ) and she's gone. Medical aid says they won't pay as it doesnt fall into the GP portion or the hospital portion without admittance. I mean she is sick enough that she has to go for a x-ray as part of diagnostics, that should be covered in some way, even a basic pmb as its problem to breath.

M/A would rather pay for a hospital stay, or let the condition worsen, utter stupidity, neh Discovery.

Now you discovered why MSA exists on the higher plans.

 

[semaphore]

Or Vets…. R650 for the same consultation.

Only for x3 different ones at private practices telling you that your dog has a normal sounding heart.

Take it to Onderstepoort where a student picks up a murmur. This was backed up with sonars etc later on.

On average each vet visit has set us back around 3K.

My cat had a op on her knee 4 weeks ago, 45mins , 20K

 

[Kosmik]

Now you discovered why MSA exists on the higher plans.

Please, I'm full aware of why it exists but have also been with them long enough to understand how badly its deterioted from the shallow of what it one once was which is why I don't support it. However the plan I use is not a pure hospital plan and has other benefits, my point though is that its a screening and diagnostic procedure that should be covered. The stupidity is, rather wait for the patient to be admitted and in dire straights costing a lot more than cover a in network diagnosis procedure.

Fyi, they would have covered CT or MRI instead, should we have gone for that rather? Makes great sense.

 

[neoprema]

Can you give relationship advice as well?

i was about to ask, i know someone who needs marriage help.

 

[neoprema]

Go look up his posts, every week he's taking antibiotics for something or he's getting the latest vaccine. I am not even joking. He takes antibiotics for the sniffles.

no for the sniffles i take an anti-hestamine and a decongestant. For a bacterial infection or possible one i take antibiotics (if prescribed) and for viruses not much unless an anti-viral like for swine flu exists otherwise just treat the symptoms. Vaccine wise just the normal flu ones every year, plus covid now as its the new normal, and then renew my travel ones since i travel a lot. Nothing to see here, pretty normal

 

[NR7]

Fyi, they would have covered CT or MRI instead, should we have gone for that rather? Makes great sense.

Because it's highly likely they would've made you co-pay for the CT or MRI. Same with any scopes and such.

This is a company with over 25 health plans, it's inevitable that they don't cover everything on every plan - and there are many situations where the MSA offers funds to cover the gaps in what they don't pay.


I sympathize with your situation, I have been in plenty situations where I'm told to pay because X isn't covered or Z is not covered fully because the specialist charges more than what Discovery's rate is etc and it's frustrating.
It sucks and with NHI looming things are going to get more and more expensive in the private sector, can already be seen with the latest Discovery increases that cut back on certain benefits whilst raising prices.
Soon most people will only be able to afford basic hospital plans and their wallets will suffer even more when when visiting doctors.

 

[Dylan_G]

Now you discovered why MSA exists on the higher plans.

MSA has never made sense to me. Comprehensive hospital plan, most definitely, but MSA?

You're paying them the same amount that you could be saving yourself.

Let us say your MSA contribution is R500 a month... that would be an MSA of R6000 a year.

You go for some kind of treatment, you claim from MA, and the practitioner charges as much as they can as it's "coming out of MA". Let's say it costs R1000 for the treatment at MA rates. You could go for that treatment 6 times in a year and then your MSA is depleted.

If you go for the same treatment but pay cash, the rates are normally lower (ie the practitioner charges less). If let's say, the practitioner charges 20% less, it's then R800 for the treatment. You could go for that treatment 7.5 times in a year or rather, save R1200 by paying cash.

Unless I'm misunderstanding something here?

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

MSA has never made sense to me. Comprehensive hospital plan, most definitely, but MSA?

You're paying them the same amount that you could be saving yourself.

Let us say your MSA contribution is R500 a month... that would be an MSA of R6000 a year.

You go for some kind of treatment, you claim from MA, and the practitioner charges as much as they can as it's "coming out of MA". Let's say it costs R1000 for the treatment at MA rates. You could go for that treatment 6 times in a year and then your MSA is depleted.

If you go for the same treatment but pay cash, the rates are normally lower (ie the practitioner charges less). If let's say, the practitioner charges 20% less, it's then R800 for the treatment. You could go for that treatment 7.5 times in a year or rather, save R1200 by paying cash.

Unless I'm misunderstanding something here?

The "benefit" is you receive it upfront at the beginning of the year. You should be saving normally anyway...