Doctor's Fees...A Rant!

[saksakgp]

Yes Riax continue justifying greed. Tell us more about your "project worth over a couple billion rand"

 

[TheGrove]

RiaX, with the comparison you make with Windows and Smart TV's the difference there is if I don't get what I pay for I can go get my money back.

If a doctor misdiagnoses and you are not happy and end up at another one it's not like you will ever see that money again, most of the time.

 

[KleinBoontjie]

Exactly. You cut yourself or you injure yourself they aren't going to treat you for free. I think its kind of idiotic that one expects this..........

Who expected them to do it for free, they have her medical aid info and billing address. The have everything of her on file. It's not the first time she's been to them. She's been a long time patient of theirs. I think it's idiotic of you to assume so much. You know what they say of assumption...

Edit: Also, I spoke to her last night, she said that the injection and few stitches they gave her amounted to almost R6000 . Is that right, that doesn't sound right?

 

[binkybozo]

l

Now lets look at consumables. There is a cost of paper, film (for xrays), CDs (advanced radiology), gloves, syringes, needles, blades ect ect ... again not free

Ok now support staff. A secretary to make appointments and deal with medical aid for you. Internet costs. Telephone and fax cost.

The last time I had anything done like this and I check the doctor's bill they charged for the needles, gloves, film etc. Also every doctor that I have ever been to charges an admin fee (R200) on your first visit (that medical aid does not cover) and they will charge you that admin fee every new year you are with them. All of that is on top of their consultation fee.

 

[The_Ogre]

Its not like the GP has an MRI in his rooms. His equipment doesnt cost R15 million and doesnt have a running cost.

This isnt a hard concept to understand.

Which specialist has an MRI in his rooms? As far as I can recall those kinds of machinery belong to the hospital. From the few times I was in hospital it appeared that all these expensive machinery were communal and each doctor had access to it.

 

[IzZzy]

Law. Calling out a labour advocate will set you back R10 000

Oscar's bail defence reportedly cost R700 000 for four days. That's a cost of R175 000 a day for his attorney and senior counsel.

The appearance fees for the top senior counsel I know, beats that.

 

[RiaX]

Which specialist has an MRI in his rooms? As far as I can recall those kinds of machinery belong to the hospital. From the few times I was in hospital it appeared that all these expensive machinery were communal and each doctor had access to it.

a radiologist ? they arent communal LOL they run by a radiology practice for example netcare uses lakesmith and partners and no each doctor doesnt have access to it they refer to the radiologist. Dont talk when you dont know how systems and protocols work.

The last time I had anything done like this and I check the doctor's bill they charged for the needles, gloves, film etc.

so you expect them to pay for you ? my GP doesnt charge me for needles when I go and most likely you talking utter nonsense please show the bill where you where charged for needles and consumables for visiting a doctor in consultation. A consultation is not the same as admission to a hospital.

Who expected them to do it for free, they have her medical aid info and billing address

and who said they must claim from medical aid ? its good business practice that most doctors do it however its not a requirement of them to do so.

she said that the injection and few stitches they gave her amounted to almost R6000 . Is that right, that doesn't sound right?

Yes because an "injection" can be anything from a saline which costs about R1 to feiba which can cost up to R150 000 per "injection". Drugs are complex devices your ignorance lets you assume its just an injection - again windows is just a disc isnt ?

stitches are not cheap either. Do you know how much it costs to manufacture sterile stuff? and to maintain sterility, depending on the grade of stitches the price can do up to R20 000. You welcome to stitch it yourself?

RiaX, with the comparison you make with Windows and Smart TV's the difference there is if I don't get what I pay for I can go get my money back

Id like to see you return windows with the new piracy policies in software stores. They will not take it back. Funny how out of all the examples you pick the objects, not the other professionals just the objects to justify your stupidity.

Yes Riax continue justifying greed.

Its not greed its the cost. These arent simple things. You know how much it costs to train medical professionals ?how much it costs to build a hospital? well perhaps if you paid more attention in school you would understand these basic facts - then you wouldnt be complaining about the cost

Still no one has provided a reaason why the doctor must take a salary cut, im still waiting for a decent reason other than a bull**** "greed" answer. I think all of you complaining about cost of a doctor please tell me what exactly you do because I believe you being greedy and deserve a 50% salary decrease.

Oscar's bail defence reportedly cost R700 000 for four days. That's a cost of R175 000 a day for his attorney and senior counsel.

I was being kind for our ignorant party that complains about the cost of skilled labour so I picked a more conservative price ...

 

[IzZzy]

Well with that being said, here is an article of relevance in today's edition of Business Report:

http://www.iol.co.za/business/business-news/private-health-care-is-wasteful-costly-1.1480574

THE private health-care sector was wasteful and its excessive pricing could lead to further shrinking of benefits if costs continued to escalate, Lord Nigel Crisp, a member of the UK House of Lords and a board member of the South African Department of Health’s Academy for Leadership in Management of Healthcare, said in Boston last week.

Crisp said in his experience with South Africa’s private health-care sector, he believed it was “quite wasteful”.

“There is over-treatment, excessive pricing and it’s very hospital focused,” he said.

Crisp said he knew South Africa’s big medical funders, such as Discovery Health, were not convinced the current tariffs levied by private health-care providers were the best they could offer.

“In context, I think your private sector could be cheaper.”

Crisp said one of the underlying problems was that specialists who conducted more complicated treatment of diseases were paid the most and more resources were allocated to treatment processes than prevention programmes.

The South African health-care system mimicked that of the US, which was characterised by large use of the private sector and private health insurance.

But South Africa was worse off because the private sector catered for very few people, he said.

Over-treatment cost the US health-care system between $158 billion (R1.4 trillion) and $226bn in 2011.

Excessive health-care prices were estimated to cost between $84bn and $178bn in that same year. Total waste under all categories, including failure to co-ordinate care, excess administration costs and other things, was estimated between $558bn and $1.2 trillion. Crisp said that the level of waste in Africa was in the region of 30 percent of this.

He said failure to co-ordinate care in countries such as South Africa meant that when patients used different doctors, there was duplication of tests carried out.

“There is the same level of waste in Africa, different kinds of waste,” said Crisp, adding that the lack of maintenance and inability to operate equipment, particularly in the public sector, added a significant cost to the countries’ health-care budgets without realising the matching health-care outcomes.

South Africa spends a higher proportion of gross domestic product (GDP) on health care than most of its Brics counterparts of Brazil, Russia, India and China. Only Brazil spends more.

In 2011, total spend on health was about 8.3 percent of GDP, way above the 5 percent recommended by the World Health Organisation. However, South Africa scores worse on indicators such as its maternal mortality rate and tuberculosis.

Crisp said there were problems in both the public and the private sectors and it was up to the country’s leadership to make the right decisions that would see the two sectors come together to form a solid health-care system.

“You’ve got a lot of ingredients that are not quite in the right place at the moment,” he said, looking at the areas that needed to be fixed to facilitate the implementation of the National Health Insurance next year.

Crisp said like many other African states and the US, South Africa was training health professionals for the 20th century, a mistake that the UK wished it could have avoided when it made its transition to the National Health System.

The other mistake that South Africa would have to avoid was confusing health care with social care, especially among the elderly, as this was one of the factors that pushed up health-care costs in the UK.


Novartis sponsored Londiwe Buthelezi’s trip to Boston.

 

[binkybozo]

so you expect them to pay for you ? my GP doesnt charge me for needles when I go and most likely you talking utter nonsense please show the bill where you where charged for needles and consumables for visiting a doctor in consultation. A consultation is not the same as admission to a hospital.
I think all of you complaining about cost of a doctor please tell me what exactly you do because I believe you being greedy and deserve a 50% salary decrease.

I have never ever said that I want them to give me money, nor have I said that I want free medical care. I really think you need to go back and re-read my posts! I have given reasons, I have given examples. When docs start charging 3 to 5 times or more over the scheme limit that is greed. No, I am not jealous, I could care less that my doc drives a high end Merc, has holiday houses where ever. I don't care really give a rat's rear end what they do in their private time.

I had Plantar fasciitis in my left heel this past year and the ortho gave me a cortisone injection. When I got my statement, he had charged me for the gloves, the needle, the syringe and the injection on top of his consultation fee. It was all done in his office, not in hospital. I am not going to Post Net to scan the bill for your enjoyment. You know I am being honest and if you don't then so be it.

I am a stay at home mom so salary (money) wise I get paid fsck all! My wife is a public high school teacher for the Gauteng Department of Education which you know pays over the top salaries, Yeah! We are living life big time on that salary. I would not have it any other way though, we do just fine on her salary and the time with my son is more valuable than anything I own or could ever own.

 

[Nerfherder]

Several things need to happen.

1: Private hospitals are under utilized. They need to take load from the public health sector, obviously on a case by case basis, funded by NHI.

2: Govt hospitals need to open private wards, Like at the JHB Gen (now Charlotte) to make the public hospitals more sustainable.

3: Govt need to purchase drugs in bulk at cheaper prices, they need to legislate cheap drugs for certain conditions (HIV etc) other countries are doing this.

4: Private need to stop inflating their billing with unnecessary procedures... this needs to be monitored by a separate body or watchdog that the public can engage with.

Public and private need to work together... there is space for them both to exist.

 

[requiem]

I have given reasons, I have given examples. When docs start charging 3 to 5 times or more over the scheme limit that is greed. .

Right there.

You are wrong.

What gives you the right to decide what is greed?

The doctor decides what he charges, if your medical aid scheme rate is x and the doctor charges 20x. Then go see another doctor.

The whole problem is a medical aid decides that a doctors time is worth 400 rand a consult.

The doctor thinks his time is worth R2000 an hour.

If no one goes to said doctor he will have to reduce his fees.

 

[Zenbaas]

Right there.

You are wrong.

What gives you the right to decide what is greed?

The doctor decides what he charges, if your medical aid scheme rate is x and the doctor charges 20x. Then go see another doctor.

The whole problem is a medical aid decides that a doctors time is worth 400 rand a consult.

The doctor thinks his time is worth R2000 an hour.

If no one goes to said doctor he will have to reduce his fees.

Reminds of of what people pay for lawyers fees.

 

[RiaX]

I am a stay at home mom so salary (money) wise I get paid fsck all! My wife is a public high school teacher for the Gauteng Department of Education which you know pays over the top salaries, Yeah! We are living life big time on that salary. I would not have it any other way though, we do just fine on her salary and the time with my son is more valuable than anything I own or could ever own.

right now tell your wife to take a 50% salary cut and work for the same amount of time, because thats exactly what you asking the doctor to do. In fact you asking the doctor to take a 66% cut to charge 100% tarrif.

Well with that being said, here is an article of relevance in today's edition of Business Report:

Hmmm explain how you think this is relevant ? this is a broad spectrum view on the practice of health in SA. Again im sure you understand an xray can get the job done but will make the procedure more risky, where as a MRI will make the procedure safer due to the increase in resolution. Sometimes its the difference between life and death during an invasive procedure. People who right these articles dont consider these facts and take it logistically.

the idea of this is the NHI. The NHI failed in the USA it WILL fail here and when it does it will cripple the private sector. This is what happens when people try to be idealistic. You create rubbish solutions

Govt need to purchase drugs in bulk at cheaper prices, they need to legislate cheap drugs for certain conditions (HIV etc)

Government doesnt pay for most of the ARVs. They are donated by cipla or aspen. The consumables for HIV comes of a seperate budget like the US aid and the UK HIV relief. Which the first world was questioning why they donating this money to SA when Zuma made an upgrade to his house to the value of the annual donation.

ARV/HIV is a completely isolated unit in government practice, because its comes of a very specialised budget, we not even allowed to keep the ARVs in the hospital pharmaceutical stores. It must have its own storage and be kept on balance for monitoring

 

[wikk3d88]

Some hilarious posts

 

[Humberto]

Some surgeons charge surgeon's fees of around R 20 K per hour for surgery.

 

[Sinbad]

Some surgeons charge surgeon's fees of around R 20 K per hour for surgery.

My urologist was almost 20k to remove one kidney stone.

 

[Bosvark@]

Specialists charge inflated rates. They can because of gap cover so they do recover their charges most Times. Some of them are booked for weeks in advance, some even months. They can loose 50% of their clients and they still smiling all the way....

 

[RiaX]

My urologist was almost 20k to remove one kidney stone.

You could have left the kidney stone

I would say thats money well spent ... From what patients tell me a kidney stone is extremely painful, and you really cant understand the pain unless you had one

 

[HavocXphere]

Some surgeons charge surgeon's fees of around R 20 K per hour for surgery.

So? If I've got someone slicing around my brain with a sharp scalpel then 10k vs 20k is pretty meaningless to me... Sure it'll put a significant dent in my savings, but no more than a cut in the wrong place.

The reason why (most) surgeons have a god complex is because they have to have it. You can't do that kind of work if you don't have absolute trust in your ability. That kind of proven ability can cost 20k an hour...

 

[AlmightyBender]

RiaX why do you find it so easy to put a $ price on human health? Don't you think that that is a bit immoral, to profit out of someone's poor health?

There is a reason that only the USA and ZA follow the model of private provision and private purchasing of healthcare. How do you feel about how this system excludes the vast majority of our population from quality healthcare?

Almost all other societies have rejected this view. In other cultures doctors take care of society and society as a whole takes care of the doctors.