Doom Eternal

Nemoneiros said:
Seems to be a better article on the matter
www.vg247.com

Doom Eternal's bungled soundtrack highlights the mistreatment of video game music

Original Doom Eternal mixing studio Systematic Productions (Periphery, Protest the Hero, Architects) helps us unravel t…
www.vg247.com www.vg247.com
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That is a much better article weighing the arguments than getting entangled with community outrage and leveraging that to increase clicks and views.

Back in the day when RTS games shaped, Dune 2 had a similar debacle with their composer as the music shaped and changed with Dune 2000 and Emperor respectively with the mixes. Likewise with C&C, but this was decades ago.
 
It seems ID's response is placing 100% of the blame on Mick? Surely if any of this is true they also contributed to the situation and fallout.

Finally, why didn't anyone let the community know that the OST would be delayed due to creative constraints? I wonder if Mick is going to respond...

https://www.reddit.com/r/Doom/comments/gdg25y
 
Trent Reznor rejected the offer to work on Doom 3 after he also experienced a bit of Id's development process in the Quake 1 sound track.
 
Moosedrool said:
Trent Reznor rejected the offer to work on Doom 3 after he also experienced a bit of Id's development process in the Quake 1 sound track.
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It is not a problem if either side made mistakes, but I find it hard to believe that only one side ****ed up and are now being thrown under the bus. I'd be even more surprised if Trent Reznor did another gig for ID Software. So I wonder who they will pick next, and if so if that artist will get the blizzard treatment aka "be thankful enough that you are working for us, that in itself is reward enough". Time will tell...
 
Nemoneiros said:
It is not a problem if either side made mistakes, but I find it hard to believe that only one side ****ed up and are now being thrown under the bus. I'd be even more surprised if Trent Reznor did another gig for ID Software. So I wonder who they will pick next, and if so if that artist will get the blizzard treatment aka "be thankful enough that you are working for us, that in itself is reward enough". Time will tell...
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It is a contractual dispute, and it isn't the public domain to determine the contractural values. Any person here employed under contractual obligation should understand this unless they were never employed. I like Mick Gordon, and I share his tracks wherever I want, but this is a scenario where obligations weren't met and remedies were actioned.

I said previously, people with assumptions are going to cause Gordon more trouble than it is worth, and it did, because ID/Bethesda's brand has been harmed and Chad Mossholder have been harrassed, to quote,

Mick has shared with me that the attacks on Chad are distressing, but he’s done nothing to change the conversation.
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a debate led by the public. You need to ask about the private PMs on Instagram and elsewhere and why it was shared in public? There is goodwill in a contractual agreement, and that goodwill is tarnished. ID wouldn't '100%' lay the blame on Gordon, wouldn't it have been contractural obligations, and as stated by Marty Stratton they did engage in extensions and other remedies within contractural time restrictions which didn't sprout and it void.
 
Fulcrum29 said:
It is a contractual dispute, and it isn't the public domain to determine the contractural values. Any person here employed under contractual obligation should understand this unless they were never employed. I like Mick Gordon, and I share his tracks wherever I want, but this is a scenario where obligations weren't met and remedies were actioned.

I said previously, people with assumptions are going to cause Gordon more trouble than it is worth, and it did, because ID/Bethesda's brand has been harmed and Chad Mossholder have been harrassed, to quote,

a debate led by the public. You need to ask about the private PMs on Instagram and elsewhere and why it was shared in public? There is goodwill in a contractual agreement, and that goodwill is tarnished. ID wouldn't '100%' lay the blame on Gordon, wouldn't it have been contractural obligations, and as stated by Marty Stratton they did engage in extensions and other remedies within contractural time restrictions which didn't sprout and it void.
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If it's as simple as contractual dispute, agreement and failure to deliver then pedastal-ing the man got us this far.
 
Nemoneiros said:
If it's as simple as contractual dispute, agreement and failure to deliver then pedastal-ing the man got us this far.
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I only want another publisher to pick up Gordon, maybe CIG should take it under consideration. Gordon will have years to do his work :thumbsup:

Seriously, I assume that Bethesda, and their other development houses, may still employ Gordon, and goodwill may still be restored between Gordon and ID.

Who knows, there may be higher-ups who are in talks with Gordon as we speak, but this isn't something which will be shared within detail by any party within the public domain other than them acknowledging the discussions and how it may have gone. Obviously they would want the public storm to settle.

I generally would welcome Gordon to be picked up by any publisher/developer as long as the game content is in line with his artistic expressions.
 
Looking at this from an outsider's perspective (I've never played Doom but I enjoy Mick's music), I think that this was simply a case of Mick and Id agreeing on a release date for the tracks and Mick finding that he wouldn't have enough time to complete everything he wanted to.

After seeing this, I feel that Id gave Mick enough time and creative freedom (within reason) to fulfill his contractual obligations to deliver the original 12 tracks. In fact, Mick actually stated that he would be able to deliver over 30 tracks with the extra 6 weeks they gave him, which he was not able to do.

It's a bit of a complicated situation but close to the deadline I think Mick realised that he wasn't going to be able to achieve the scope of the soundtrack that Id and himself wanted and I think both parties were a bit ambitious with the deadline they set.

Chad Mossholder just tried to take the bits and pieces that Mick had given them and turn it into a comprehensible soundtrack, which is quite hard to do considering that music in-game needs to meet a noise level requirement and the tracks were clipped like that by Mick to fit into the mix of the game.

Chad definitely didn't deserve to be treated and threatened like that by idiots on social media who jumped to conclusions before knowing the full story. He just tried to give CE owners and fans the length of the OST that they would have expected because people would also be mad if there were only 11 or 12 tracks.

I feel that Mick also treated the situation poorly on social media by being very vague with his responses and leading people to believe that it was Id's fault instead of claiming responsibility. The community in general treated it poorly too, by immediately attacking Id and Bethesda without having full context of the situation.

To me, this whole situation could have been avoided or at least more controlled if all parties involved (including the fans) had better communicated their concerns instead of separating themselves from the situation. It's a bad situation for everyone and the best outcome would be if Mick and Id can reach an agreement for him to finish the OST.
 
Nemoneiros said:
Whois enjoying their new doomed eternal kernel level anti cheat update?
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Why, is Denuvo now worse than ever? id did state that it only runs with the game and doesn't do deep scanning which it should since they have also to abide by EU rules, unlike those Tencent chaps.
 
Fulcrum29 said:
Why, is Denuvo now worse than ever? id did state that it only runs with the game and doesn't do deep scanning which it should since they have also to abide by EU rules, unlike those Tencent chaps.
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I'm just asking tongue in cheek and nothing more, but you could always wait for eks splinter to have a good philosophical debate about it :laugh:
 
Nemoneiros said:
I'm just asking tongue in cheek and nothing more, but you could always wait for eks splinter to have a good philosophical debate about it :laugh:
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All this is due to the intrusive Valorant anti-cheat which has been making headlines, now everyone is brought into scrutiny. Not to mention that Riot is actually owned by Tencent.
 
Fulcrum29 said:
All this is due to the intrusive Valorant anti-cheat which has been making headlines, now everyone is brought into scrutiny. Not to mention that Riot is actually owned by Tencent.
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Agreed. I'll add this though: Why does it need to run in ring 0, and which other software/tools do we use that also runs at the level? I would imagine that CE (cheat engine) pretty much runs same level?
 
Nemoneiros said:
Agreed. I'll add this though: Why does it need to run in ring 0, and which other software/tools do we use that also runs at the level? I would imagine that CE (cheat engine) pretty much runs same level?
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Ask the hackers. I use Cosmos and Cheat Engine to train in various games that I play, and they are caught by the anti-cheats. EAC always warn me that I have Cosmos or Cheat Engine in my resource allocation when I run a game with it still in process.

Who are they to say that I am not allowed to manipulate my single-player grinds?
 
Fulcrum29 said:
Ask the hackers. I use Cosmos and Cheat Engine to train in various games that I play, and they are caught by the anti-cheats. EAC always warn me that I have Cosmos or Cheat Engine in my resource allocation when I run a game with it still in process.

Who are they to say that I am not allowed to manipulate my single-player grinds?
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CE is amazing, much like Game Wizard 32 Pro was for back then. Honestly, whichever way you enjoy the product offline should be up to you.
 
Fulcrum29 said:
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I see, not a bad take on it. However, you don't have many options to protest it if you want to. Making a bad review, refund request, social media and/or not buying their next title. If this is to be protested then what about the other titles also using kernel-level anti-cheat?
 
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