Driving with headlights on

a question to the anti-daytime-lights-on brigade:

none of you seem to mention the fact that bikers have their lights on and that this increases their chances of being seen/noticed. fact is, bikes are more noticeable with their lights on. as yet, i have yet to see anyone on this thread dispute that; no arguments that this principle only applies to europe where there is less light, no arguments that headlights are stupid in the daytime and that they should be using DRLs, no complaints that headlights (not brights) are blinding in the daytime. nobody on this thread has said that bikes having their lights on makes them less visible.

the lights INCREASE noticeability (yes, i know that isn't a proper word), they don't guarantee it. i understand that bikes are near-invisible without the lights due to their narrow profile, but the principle applies to cars as well (particularly for cars with low-noticeability colour, like grey or silver).

i won't mention my stance on the whole daytime lights thing - let's just say that i am neutral and curious to get more opinion on this.
 
I ride a bike, lights must be always on, cannot turn off.. definitely makes you more visible... what i don't like is some biker driving with brights on.. that really blinds you sometimes...

Then I have a Opel Corsa..newer models... they all have day time driving lights.... cannot switch your lights completely off... Definitely makes you more visible and not blinding at all... what i dont like during the day are the HIGH Beamers...and Fog Light brigades....
 
The only fog lights that might cause a hassle are the REAR ones which blind everyone behind you. Front fogs, in order to work correctly in foggy conditions HAVE to be fairly low light AND have to be a low spreading light. If fogs are irritating you on another car, then you will probably find that they are after - market rubbish that have been fitted incorrectly.

Two things that made me think of this thread this morning on the drive in to work, both happened near Twini hill outside Toti.

1 - A TOTAL Cretin on a bike, dressed in black on a black bike and running with no lights on - he was virtually invisible as he lane hopped through the traffic.

2 - Cretin number two, and he is one of several thousand ass hats who do this every day, running at 0.00002 mm behind my back bumper! Bugger running with lights on, what do we have to do in SA to educate these pathetic examples of humanity that running up the backside of the car in front of you WILL lead to an accident - maybe not today, but sometime very soon!! :mad:
 
Fazda said:
2 - Cretin number two, and he is one of several thousand ass hats who do this every day, running at 0.00002 mm behind my back bumper! Bugger running with lights on, what do we have to do in SA to educate these pathetic examples of humanity that running up the backside of the car in front of you WILL lead to an accident - maybe not today, but sometime very soon!! :mad:
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Which brings us to my number one pet hate on public roads, following distance.

People dont understand that you need to leave enough gap to react and come to a complete stop within the distance of the car in front of you.

On the flip side of that, if you don't drive with your numberplate against someones bumper in morning traffic you get an even bigger as hat that will push his way into a queue from another lane.

I don't know where the middle ground is, WWTSD (what would the Stig do)
 
droplet said:
a question to the anti-daytime-lights-on brigade:

none of you seem to mention the fact that bikers have their lights on and that this increases their chances of being seen/noticed. fact is, bikes are more noticeable with their lights on. as yet, i have yet to see anyone on this thread dispute that; no arguments that this principle only applies to europe where there is less light, no arguments that headlights are stupid in the daytime and that they should be using DRLs, no complaints that headlights (not brights) are blinding in the daytime. nobody on this thread has said that bikes having their lights on makes them less visible.

the lights INCREASE noticeability (yes, i know that isn't a proper word), they don't guarantee it. i understand that bikes are near-invisible without the lights due to their narrow profile, but the principle applies to cars as well (particularly for cars with low-noticeability colour, like grey or silver).

i won't mention my stance on the whole daytime lights thing - let's just say that i am neutral and curious to get more opinion on this.
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Personally, I'm not against adding lights for visibility, I'm just against using headlights to that effect. Which is why I constantly say I'm good with DRLs because they dont have as many negative effects as full brightness headlights (and I'm not referring to brights here). And I apply the same reasoning to motorcycles and so I have an orange cover over mine. It reduces the brightness but increases contrast. And it seems to me like more studies are starting to show its contrast that really gets peoples attention. Like you'd think a black jacket is the worst, but what if the background is mostly white (ignoring the obvious that black is always bad at night).

edit: its like ABS - most people would never think to ever drive without it, it makes driving so much safer. But, go onto a road with a loose/slippery surface with ABS on and you'll never stop (although the latest ABS can adjust for this with clever programming). Does that make ABS bad? No, you just need to understand the potential negative effects in varying circumstances. Same applies to any safety feature, and its my opinion that the negatives of headlights are greater than the positives.
 
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Archer said:
Personally, I'm not against adding lights for visibility, I'm just against using headlights to that effect. Which is why I constantly say I'm good with DRLs because they dont have as many negative effects as full brightness headlights (and I'm not referring to brights here). And I apply the same reasoning to motorcycles and so I have an orange cover over mine. It reduces the brightness but increases contrast. And it seems to me like more studies are starting to show its contrast that really gets peoples attention. Like you'd think a black jacket is the worst, but what if the background is mostly white (ignoring the obvious that black is always bad at night).

edit: its like ABS - most people would never think to ever drive without it, it makes driving so much safer. But, go onto a road with a loose/slippery surface with ABS on and you'll never stop (although the latest ABS can adjust for this with clever programming). Does that make ABS bad? No, you just need to understand the potential negative effects in varying circumstances. Same applies to any safety feature, and its my opinion that the negatives of headlights are greater than the positives.
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I agree with your first paragraph for the most part, I still personally think headlight is better than no light though

I don't get your 2nd paragraph though, is ABS not supposed to help on a slippery surface as well, meaning it will calculate the amount of force it can use before the wheel locks and keeps it just under that threshold?
 
M3mPh1z said:
I don't get your 2nd paragraph though, is ABS not supposed to help on a slippery surface as well, meaning it will calculate the amount of force it can use before the wheel locks and keeps it just under that threshold?
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You've never been offroad have you :p I've tried to explain it properly but cant, hopefully the links do
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=694810
http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/ABS_offroad.html

And here you can see what happens to a motorcycle (if the quality doesnt destroy your eyes instantly :p) with ABS on, going down hill.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrD65i3FUcU
 
Archer said:
You've never been offroad have you :p I've tried to explain it properly but cant, hopefully the links do
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=694810
http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/ABS_offroad.html

And here you can see what happens to a motorcycle (if the quality doesnt destroy your eyes instantly :p) with ABS on, going down hill.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrD65i3FUcU
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Ah I see you are referring to riding on dirt, yea that makes perfect sense, rather let the bumps on your tyres slow you down instead of the tree at the end.

p.s. That clip was pretty funny lol
 
ABS on a bike is one thing, and on a car something totally different - don't start blurring the lines to suit your argument.
 
Fazda said:
ABS on a bike is one thing, and on a car something totally different - don't start blurring the lines to suit your argument.
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Well done missing the point :rolleyes: Maybe if I had referred to airbags you'd understand. They do save lives, but they also claim lives. Understanding the pros and cons (and the likelihood of their occurence) and then being able to determine if it is worth it is my point.

And I'm not blurring anything, I even gave two links, one for 4 wheels, one for 2 wheels. The video just happened to be of a bike. Better luck next time trying to discredit the argument by not referring to the argument at all.
 
Quantum Theory said:
The new model GS has an ABS setting for dirt.
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Which disables the ABS on the rear completely (Enduro Pro)... The KTM 1190 works the same way, disabling the rear ABS. All this reinforces my point that sometimes a safety feature can work against you.
 
Archer said:
Well done missing the point :rolleyes: Maybe if I had referred to airbags you'd understand. They do save lives, but they also claim lives. Understanding the pros and cons (and the likelihood of their occurence) and then being able to determine if it is worth it is my point.

And I'm not blurring anything, I even gave two links, one for 4 wheels, one for 2 wheels. The video just happened to be of a bike. Better luck next time trying to discredit the argument by not referring to the argument at all.
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Don't bother you and I will go in circles ad infinitum, and we will never agree, so let's just leave it at that.
 
Archer said:
Which disables the ABS on the rear completely (Enduro Pro)... The KTM 1190 works the same way, disabling the rear ABS. All this reinforces my point that sometimes a safety feature can work against you.
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That is Enduro Pro mode... What about Enduro mode?
 
Fazda said:
Don't bother you and I will go in circles ad infinitum, and we will never agree, so let's just leave it at that.
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Surely you must concede that most (if not all) safety features have their drawbacks. And only once considering the drawbacks can you recommend that feature. Many of you headlight punters seem to automatically dismiss any possible negative effect as nonsense, which means you dont consider any potential negative effects. And if you ever find yourself in a situation where lights on could be worse, you'd just carry on blissfully unaware that you're a danger to people on the road. How awesome is that! Who cares about that safety label on the passenger airbag, strap your child in, airbags save lives everytime! Never consider negative consequences, always focus on the positive!
 
No safety feature will ensure that you will always be in ideal conditions to use them, but for all modern and widely used safety features I would rather have them on my car as the situations that they are deemed necessary for are far more common than the situations where they are dangerous
 
Archer said:
Relevance to safety features not being safe for you all the time?
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Just saying that your blanket statement that ABS is bad on dirt is wrong. That is also why I mentioned my car earlier, which also has no problem on dirt. Stops far quicker with the ABS on, than it would have done with no ABS.
 
M3mPh1z said:
No safety feature will ensure that you will always be in ideal conditions to use them, but for all modern and widely used safety features I would rather have them on my car as the situations that they are deemed necessary for are far more common than the situations where they are dangerous
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Obviously for things like ABS and airbags the case to have them rather than not is strong. I'd never not wear a seatbelt just because one mate survived an accident because he wasn't wearing it. Those exact circumstances are so few and far between you're far far better of always keeping the seatbelt on.

But per my epic long post that few people probably read, the studies done on DRLs is a bit sketchy at present and therefore recommending them (based on those studies) is a bit silly.
 
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